TV and Movies

[golding76]

Those who are familiar with the incomparable James Brown know that his talent was monumental.  What that man could do on a stage shook the Earth.  He was one of a kind.  How fortunate I was to experience his dazzling show in person at the Howard Theatre in Washington, D.C., in the 1960s.  As I've written here before, I'd never before experienced such excitement in a show as that one.  Nothing has ever topped that memory, to tell the truth.

When I read that Brown had a tribute to Elvis Presley, I was anxious to see/hear it.  In light of some of the posts above, I think hearing what James Brown had to say about Elvis and his open-mindedness is worthwhile.  

Maybe you would like to hear James Brown's tribute to Elvis:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IC3areNetI

[gertrudecloset]

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@golding76 wrote:

Oznell, it has always been my thought that musicians who played rock and roll and jazz could never be bigoted.  They just could not be and be whole, honest human beings.

As nearly everyone now knows, rock and roll and jazz had their roots in the African American experience, and many of the most prominent White musicians, including Elvis Presley, owe their style and inspiration to African American musicians who went before them.  So many were never credited for or received monetary reimbursement for their formidable contributions to the world of pop music.

Thus, it has has been my heartwarming experience that rock and jazz musicians are pretty much color blind.  If only other work cultures and communities could be the same.

It makes all the sense in the world to me that Elvis would honor the memory and legacy of Dr. King like this.  Thank you for your post. 

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While I agree with some of the points you make @golding76 ; I must disagree with the notion that people who culturally appropriate can not be bigots.  One has nothing to do with the other.  It's about "power" not whether some person or groups of persons can take things and get credit for another's ideas.  This happens all the time.

Did Elvis credit Big Moma Thornton for Houndog?  If he gave credit for every idea/work he used and every move he made that came from the Black community I will stand corrected.  If at the time of his use, he recognized where his fame and sucess came from then I would say he was not a bigot. 

On it's face it is possible for individuals or groups to steal based solely on bigotry.  That's the power structure they get to enjoy.  One thing has nothing to do with the other.  We can't make such a sweeping statement without knowing the individuals and how they felt at the time or why they chose to refashion and/or emulate the Black experience.  AA's were disenfranchised people.

[gertrudecloset]

This is a good source for those who are interested in understanding how enslaved Blacks in America shaped the music landscape in America

https://www.carnegiehall.org/Explore/Articles/2022/01/11/Timeline-of-African-American-Music

[golding76]

My point, however, was not that there could be no incidence of bigotry because the music was appropriated.  Rather, I was trying to say that when African Americans and Whites made music together on the same stage/platform -- in a formal performance or simply jamming for fun -- there could be no bigotry if the individuals were honest human beings.  Maybe my emphasis was "off" in my previous post.

That's not to say it did not happen; I'm saying that it would be difficult to be an authentic human being if a musician played alongside musicians s/he pretended to like but didn't.  Without question, such duplicity would likely take a toll on the quality of the music.  

As a White person, I am unable to fully understand the helplessness and futility that many marginalized African American musicians must have felt when they saw their work performed by White performers who received the glory for the compositions or style of performance.  I can empathize but never fully feel the depth of the feelings of anger and loss that the Black musicians experienced.  Many White musicians have credited African Americans who preceded them for influencing their style, so I am familiar with their gratitude. 

I will stop now.

[gertrudecloset]

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@golding76 wrote:

My point, however, was not that there could be no incidence of bigotry because the music was appropriated.  Rather, I was trying to say that when African Americans and Whites made music together on the same stage/platform -- in a formal performance or simply jamming for fun -- there could be no bigotry if the individuals were honest human beings.  Maybe my emphasis was "off" in my previous post.

{response} Blacks and Whites did NOT make music on the same stage.  Blacks may have written the music and the Whites performed it or vice versa.  As in Elvis' case if he was singing music that sounded black it was in his best interest to have Black back up singers.  Slave owners had blacks and they were bigots.  Because some worked together has nothing to do with how they felt about them at the end of the day.  I was not a big follower of Elvis Pressley, but just because he had "Black back up singers" we can't declare him a non bigot @golding76 .  I don't know if he was.  He was trying to sell records, after all.

That's not to say it did not happen; I'm saying that it would be difficult to be an authentic human being if a musician played alongside musicians s/he pretended to like but didn't.  Without question, such duplicity would likely take a toll on the quality of the music.  

As a White person, I am unable to fully understand the helplessness and futility that many marginalized African American musicians must have felt when they saw their work performed by White performers who received the glory for the compositions or style of performance.  I can empathize but never fully feel the depth of the feelings of anger and loss that the Black musicians experienced.  Many White musicians have credited African Americans who preceded them for influencing their style, so I am familiar with their gratitude. 

[response] Yes, if they credited them for the work that's good but what they needed was to be paid for the fruits of their artistic labor. Blacks did not enjoy these things in the greater American community.  Their album press covers could not have their own likeness on them at one point in time.  They did do well in their own venues and juke joints, but they were not adored countrywide.

I appreciate you understanding that it's deeper than just hiring or paying homage (someone paving the way for you).  It has nothing to do with it.  It was a means to an end is all.

I will stop now.

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I'm done.  If we're going to talk about this wonderful historical and factual subject of study; it's best we approach it sensibly and factually.

[golding76]

The Jimi Hendrix Experience -- Two White guys and Jimi.  At least this is one band that was integrated.  We're talking 1966-67 here, and, truth be told, there weren't many well-known integrated bands/groups.  However, lesser known Black and White musicians jammed at the local level.  Saw it myself, in person.

More discoveries from other decades below.  

The Benny Goodman Quartet

1930s

Benny Goodman Quartet – featuring Lionel Hampton, Teddy Wilson, and Gene Krupa (1936)

1940s

Artie Shaw Orchestra with Roy Eldridge (1946)

1950s

Del Vikings (1955) – best known for "Come Go With Me" and "Whispering Bells"

1960s

Paul Butterfield Blues Band (mid-Sixties) – "Last Night" and "Mystery Train"

The Chambers Brothers (1965)

The Jimi Hendrix Experience (1966) – best known for "Purple Haze" and "Wild Thing"

Blood, Sweat & Tears (1967)

Sly and the Family Stone (1967) – best known for "Dance to the Music" and "I Want to Take You Higher"

Three Dog Night (1968) – best known for "Mamma Told Me" and "One"

1970s

Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band with Clarence Clemons (Clarence joined the band in 1972)

[Oznell]

Love that you unearthed this wealth of music history photos, thanks, @golding76 !

[golding76]

Oznell, I unearthed an article that was a trove of information on integrated bands/groups in popular music.  As many of us realize, there was a paucity of integrated bands decades ago, but they did exist.  Surprisingly, some bands were integrated well before the Civil Rights Act was passed.

[JaneMarple]

I haven't any doubt that Elvis was prejudiced in his early life since he was born in Mississippi but..........I believe his feelings changed as he got older and wiser.

He loved Sister Rosetta Tharpe and especially how she played the guitar. She quite often sang with his group The Joordanaires as well.

When Jackie Wilson was in a coma, Elvis took care of his hospital bills. If Elvis had had lived I truly believe he would have kept paying them.

At one of Muhammad Ali's famous boxing matches, he wore a beautiful robe gifted to him by Elvis.