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Esteemed Contributor
Posts: 6,624
Registered: ‎01-27-2014

Re: Do You Believe Dustin Did It?

@NycVixen Well stated posts! 

Im more than a little disturbed by attitudes expressed that seem to suggest that “times were different”at some point in the past. Harassment, s—assault, and predatory behavior is illegal and these men should be charged to the fullest extent of the law. Period.

Respected Contributor
Posts: 2,306
Registered: ‎10-15-2010

Re: Do You Believe Dustin Did It?

[ Edited ]

@Goldengate8361 wrote:

@NycVixen Well stated posts! 

Im more than a little disturbed by attitudes expressed that seem to suggest that “times were different”at some point in the past. Harassment, s—assault, and predatory behavior is illegal and these men should be charged to the fullest extent of the law. Period.


Thanks so much @Goldengate8361. I'm disturbed as well.  These attitudes are indicative of a very deep misogyny that somehow believes that women's suffering is OK. That women's lives are not as important. That any abuse inflicted on women is just something that 'happens'. 

 

That's the thing. These things don't just 'happen' and it's not the 'times'; it's people who make them happen and make abuse commonplace. It was never OK. I don't think the victims found it acceptable. They had no other choice but to tolerate it because the system nor society was designed to benefit women back then or now. It was designed for men, by men. 

 

The only way to effect real change is when women are finally in charge and have the power over their own bodies and lives. Men decide how women live all over the world because they control the laws and all the institutions that we live by. 

 

That power imbalance is the core of the problem. Edited to add:

 

The theory of cultural hegemony, associated particularly with Antonio Gramsci, is the idea that the ruling class can manipulate the value system and mores of a society, so that their view becomes the world view (Weltanshauung): in Terry Eagleton's words, "Gramsci normally uses the word hegemony to mean the ways in which a governing power wins consent to its rule from those it subjugates"  - Wikipedia.

 

I'm a graduate student and I've studied this in depth. The fact that many women here express those views is evidence of hegemony and how insidious it is. 

 

~Live with Intention~
Honored Contributor
Posts: 8,027
Registered: ‎03-10-2010

Re: Do You Believe Dustin Did It?

Yes I believe the accusations, but legally he can't be prosecuted at this point.

Honored Contributor
Posts: 11,448
Registered: ‎01-22-2016

Re: Do You Believe Dustin Did It?

[ Edited ]

@KathyPet wrote:

I do agree that applying today’s standards of behavior including a much broader definition of what constitutes s**u** assault to events that occurred 15-20years ago does not seem fair to the accused.  Things were different and to apply today’s rules to events that were not considered nearly as offensive then as they are today makes no sense to me. 

 

Your comment makes no sense. His behavior unacceptable.There is no timeline for manners. Certainly not sexual harassment. Disturbing reading statements such as yours, Reflect on what you said.


Super Contributor
Posts: 296
Registered: ‎03-09-2010

Re: Do You Believe Dustin Did It?

I sure do believe he did it.....Seems the flood gates have opened and people are not afraid to tell now and i say GOOD for them!....This came out today about  Danny Masterson from that 70s show and who is also a long time Scientologist...4 woman have come foreword accusing him of rape 3 of which were Scientologists and taped a show for Leah Reminis docu series but they have not aired it because of police investigation.

 

 

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/11/danny-masterson-rape-allegations

 

 

Trusted Contributor
Posts: 1,232
Registered: ‎01-05-2017

Re: Do You Believe Dustin Did It?

This has nothing to do with men (or women, if they are the  abusers) being judged by today's standards versus the standards from years ago.  Unwanted or inapppropriate advances are not right today and were not right years ago.  Women (or men who have been abused) are just now feeling empowered enough to speak out.  If women do not speak out it will NEVER stop.  This is about people in power abusing their power by taking advantage of people who are afraid to fight back.  We need to start talking to our sons, starting at a young age, about how to treat women (and people in general).  This may help with the bullying problem as well.

 

This sort of behavior has been rampant in Hollywood and corporate America for years.  It is not okay and we all need to speak up and support each other.Smiley Happy

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Re: Do You Believe Dustin Did It?

This post has been removed by QVC because it is baiting

Esteemed Contributor
Posts: 6,527
Registered: ‎03-10-2010

Re: Do You Believe Dustin Did It?


@Carmie wrote:

@esmerelda wrote:

@Carmie wrote:

Back in the day, many things that would be considered sexual harassment today were tolerated.

 

I remember an incident where during my senior year in HS, I drove a classmate friend home after graduation practice.  We stopped at McD for lunch first.

 

As were we were walking out of the door I felt someone who was coming in the door at the same time grab my bottom.  Without missing a beat, I swung around and slapped a really tall guy in the face.  

 

I almost had a heart attack when I saw that he was wearing a state police uniform.  I thought I was going to be attested.  His partner laughed and said “ Good for you, that’ll teach him to keep his hands to himself.”

 

 My friend and I left quickly.  I really thought I did something wrong.  

 

Today, that trooper would  lose his job for that.  I was only 17 at the time too.

 

i could in no way keep a count of how many guys grabbed me.  I had a very endowed figure at the time.  Many of those guys who were teens  at the time are now in VIP positions.  I am sure they would never do such a thing now.  Times have changed and so have standards.

 

yeah, Dustin Hoffman might have done something back in the day that he would never think of doing now.  

 

*** I forgot to say that my DH has had women grab is bottom and make lewd comments. So it seems this type of harassment goes both ways.  The last women who did this to him was an attorney and it was a few months ago.  She has also asked him to go out with her even though she knows he is married.


@CarmieThat trooper would have lost his job for that THEN too, if you'd filed a complaint.  AND you had a witness.  Why didn't you?  Oh yeah...you were young.  But you already knew enough to defend your self.

 

It's comforting to know that none of the men currently married to the women posting here have ever touched a bottom or grabbed a bottom or worse.


@esmerelda  How did you personally handle a guy grabbing you back in 1972?  Did you file a complaint?  How did you file it with no cell phones back then?  Did you use a pay phone or wait until you got home?  How would you know his name to make the complaint? 

 

Witness?  I don’t think anyone witnessed him grabbing me, but they did witness me slapping him.  

 

I was taught to defend myself and I had to, more than once.  I even got in trouble in HS for slapping and screaming at a guy who touched me in passing inappropriately in the hall between classes.  I was accused of trying to start a fight or commotion.  He got a free pass.

 

Back then, this type of behavior was common place.  No one took it seriously when you complained. There used to be a “joke” that only the ugly girls could avoid being touched.

 

Thank goodness that times have changed, but this type of behavior still exists.

BTW, since I am old, no one bothers me anymore.  That is a big plus.

 


Good grief, @Carmie.  The other cop with him said something about keeping his hands to himself.  So HE knew what the guy did. That's your witness.  No doubt your friend saw and heard him, so she's a witness if the other guy doesn't cooperate.  Every policeman wears a name tag...so there's his name.  And as there's a policeman right there, you don't need a phone...cell or otherwise.  I'm guessing you and your friend eventually even had a laugh about it..."You hit a cop!!  LOL!"

 

Yes, "back then this behavior was common place."  A criminal complaint would have been taken seriously if it had been made.  But they weren't because while it may have been offensive, maybe it was a little flattering too, no? 

 

How have I personally handled a guy grabbing me?  No guy ever grabbed me.  Maybe it was the way I carried myself or the people I was around.  Some shouted, some whistled...I wasn't offended by either.

 

A guy (a former neighbor who's complaint was really with my parents, had nothing to do with me) did shout an insult across the street once.  I took him to court.

 

I never heard the "joke" about "ugly girls."

*********************
Keepin' it real.
Esteemed Contributor
Posts: 6,527
Registered: ‎03-10-2010

Re: Do You Believe Dustin Did It?


@KathyPet wrote:

I do agree that applying today’s standards of behavior including a much broader definition of what constitutes s**u** assault to events that occurred 15-20years ago does not seem fair to the accused.  Things were different and to apply today’s rules to events that were not considered nearly as offensive then as they are today makes no sense to me.


Ahhh... @KathyPet  Thanks for some sane perspective.  The applying of today's standards to events that occurred several decades ago is being attempted too, and unfortunately succeeding in some places.

*********************
Keepin' it real.
Honored Contributor
Posts: 15,563
Registered: ‎10-25-2010

Re: Do You Believe Dustin Did It?

@esmerelda  That’s what I figured.  You have no experience with this.

 

And no, we didn’t laugh about the incident.  We were both scared that I was going to get arrested. We were only 17 at the time.  We left McD as fast as we could.  It’s not a compliment to be pinched or grabbed,  it happened so often that I was sick of it.  My natural reaction was to slap and hit and try to get away.

 

It had nothing to do with the way I carried myself.  It had to do with the way I was built.  My body type is a curse, not an asset.

 

Today, I would file charges, it was unheard of 46 years ago.