Sports

[gardenman]

So, how do feel about the new rule changes? If the Xfinity race is any indication, we're looking at long, long races. We're now about three hours into the Xfinity race and we're just halfway through as I type this.

I personally would like to see Nascar throw away a large part of the rule book (everything but the driver safety rules) and let racing go back to being racing. Let crews cheat in creative ways and try to get whatever edge they can as long as it doesn't endanger the drivers, fans, or pit crews. 

I'm an old guy and remember how racing used to be, and that's what made me a nascar fan. There was real variety in cars, creative crews could tweak the rules and get an edge, and it was fun to see what would happen from week to week. Now the cars are all identical, there's no real opportunity to cheat the rules. They've taken a lot of the fun out of Nascar. 

[BettyNewbie]

Its hard to judge by Daytona dont you think?? Its a long race no matter what every year...I will give it a few weeks.....I cant see this 5 minute repair thing lasting very long though....I see sponsors thowing a fit over this rulle very soon.....It will be interesting to see what Toyota does this year...they have some big names with them ......

[gardenman]

One of the things I'm not sure of is the driver's availability if his car is out of the race. They say if your repair goes over five minutes or if you take the car to the garage you're done, but can the driver come back out as a replacement driver?

Let's say a Jimmie Johnson gets wrecked and knocked out very early in a race. He's a better driver than any of his teammates. Let's say Kasey Kahne is feeling a bit off and it's a track he's not good at, but Johnson is. Could Jimmie take over Kasey's car to help the team get the win, even though he's been knocked out of the race? Does their new concussion protocol play any role in that?

I haven't heard anything about how that would all work out. At the road courses you have plenty of time on a caution lap, and even on a green flag lap, to make a driver change. GIven the number of red flags we saw yesterday a driver change could easily take place during one of them. With the custom seats and padding we don't see the driver changes like we used to, but I'm wondering if that's even possible with the new rules.

[hckynut]

As a drag race driver/mechanic and flunky, I raced for many years around the whole Midwest. Rules changed as knowledge(and a little cheating) advanced. There is no such thing as "turning back the clock", which I would absolutely love.

I started as a young teen as a car enthusiast and started racing at drag strips as soon I could legally drive. Raced until sponsored cars became more the norm than the exception. Along with that being competitive required more money, which in turn lost competitors like myself.

For me I was not going to work another job to afford my hobby/sport and passion. I decided to quit racing of one kind and took up another, cheaper and more healthy for my body. Turned to running Road Races, with my 2 feet, which cost me only shoe money, what few were available in the 1960's and 1970's.

Was always a fan and spectator at our local circle tracks and knew many that chose that form of racing. Nascar was a sport that most interested in auto racing were the average man/woman and families. Could enjoy a night of racing for a nominal amount of cost for the average family.

Been a fan going back to drivers like Tiny Lund,who raced at our local dirt and asphalt ovals. As Nascar advanced via technology and then access to high $$$ TV contracts, ticket prices went up/non-sponsored cars disappeared, as did car owners that were also their own drivers.

Replaced were those types of race teams, and enter the days of multi-car team owners. First 2 car teams and on and up it went. Gone are many of the original small tracks, that were the backbone of the origin of Nascar Racing. In came large seating, mostly cookie cutter, race tracks along with ever increasing ticket prices.

Money priced me out of my actively participating in one sport/hobby, that was also my passion. Big team car racing, ever changing rules, which the average spectator having to be able to have a "book of rules" to even keep up with what is in and what is out.

As Nascar racing keeps changing, along with the participants and fans, is it for the good of the fan and the sport, or the cause that could possibly lead to the end of the era of the true race fan and family participation? I don't have the answer, but I am with @gardenman with my desire to resurrect the past Nascar Racing as I knew it.

hckynut(john)

[gardenman]

Remember Richard Petty and his Superbird in 1970 with that enormous rear wing? Show up with a car that's even a fraction of an inch different from every other car these days and you can't race.

I like different cars. I like something about the cars to be different other than the decals. One of the neat things about fewer rules is the choices impact the racing. Want to go faster? Choose a lower spoiler. Of course that lower spoiler will limit the handling and make you more prone to losing control. Is your driver able to control the car with a lower spoiler or should you raise it a tick to make the car handle better? 

If you were designing a scientific way to determine which driver is best, you'd want every driver driving a car that was as identical as possible. Nascar isn't, well shouldn't be a science experiment to select the best driver. It should be a race. They've largely made it a science experiment with all of the rules these days and they've lost their way.

They really need to go back to being less regulated and give more choices to the drivers and teams. With Nascar setting every single parameter you now have drivers who might prefer and prosper with different settings/adjustments stuck with whatever Nascar mandates. We've got cookie cutter cars, on many cookie cutter tracks, with drivers who are more corporate spokespeople than drivers. That's not the Nascar I grew up watching and loving.

[deepwaterdotter]

I'm finding that so many caution laps after the first and second stages are just a waste as far as racing goes.  What is their function other than providing time for commercials?  And I agree that the 5-minute rule in the pits will have the manufacturers in an uproar and be changed by next year. 

[nun ya]

I agree with you Gardenman. I grew up watching Nascar in the 70's. I don't like the cookie cutter cars and all the new rules.

[gardenman]

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@nun ya wrote:

I agree with you Gardenman. I grew up watching Nascar in the 70's. I don't like the cookie cutter cars and all the new rules.

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@nun ya 

We're not alone either. The attendance is way down these days. The choices teams had in the past made setting up a car much more flexible. Pretty much everything on a car could be adjusted to suit your driver. Now pretty much everything is mandated by Nascar. The springs, shocks, differential gearing, tires, transmissions, the spoiler height, width, angle, are all mandated to within a fraction of a degree by Nascar these days. 

It wasn't that long ago that a pit crew would be bumping up or down the spoiler on a stop to suit a driver. There were competing tire brands. Cars varied wildly in appearance. Different shock and spring combinations would favor one team over another. Now drivers have to adjust to whatever Nascar specifies and different drivers like their cars set up different ways, but other than the weight jacks there's not a lot teams can do these days. Nascar's even stipulating tire air pressure these days.

It's almost like they're trying to kill the sport. Part of the allure of Nascar was the rumrunner origins where you had these fun loving scofflaws racing against one anohter. It's becoming a science experiment now with everything as equalized as they can make it. If they don't revert back to a less regulated sport, they'll likely disappear like the old IROC series did. In IROC you had identical cars, identically prepared and everything as equal as possible and it failed. Nascar seems to be following that blueprint and it's not a good blueprint.

[hckynut]

I watched the pre-race show and the whole race(DVR of course), and I have no clue how this race was even ran. I heard no explanation about "stages 1-2-3", and had no idea about much of anything.

As a fan, I don't want to have to read a 1,000 page document listing how to watch and understand the inner workings of Nascar. I just want to sit and watch a sport I love, as a spectator, not an official of Nascar.

My life is hockey, from playing/Referee/Running a League, and all the inner workings of what it takes to be successful at doing each part of the game. Spectators come to watch most sports, not to be an expert Analyst of every detail of how the overall sport is ran by any NBA/NFL/MLB, or the NHL.

Call me dumb, but back in the 50"s and 60's, all i needed or wanted to know is what position each car is running, and then seeing which one hit the finish line first. If Nascar keeps making a race for fans to difficulr to understand, they will lose the passion of many great auto racing enthusiasts like myself.

Cograts to Stewert/Hass and Kurt Busch for their win. As a Ford man who raced nothing but Ford cars, I loved seeing their switch to Ford. Now I may even grow to like Harvick!

hckynut(john)

[LonestarBabs]

I was a big NASCAR fan for many years but when Earnhardt Sr died that was it for me. Haven't been very interested since.  At one point in time I was building a house in the Lake Norman NC area near where the teams had their shops -- you could actually hear them tuning engines sometimes. Many of the drivers and crews lived in the area.

But when #3 left, I did too.