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06-24-2022 01:17 AM - edited 06-24-2022 02:00 AM
Hi there @dmod nj
"I am sure John knew". Well! Because of the camera view of ESPN seeing the number of players on the ice was impossible in live action. Even the replays live they didn't even mention it. Ray Ferraro seemed to say they were looking to see if the puck actually went in the net. I wouldn't know anything about this if you wouldn't have put up this link.
I did a rewind on my DVR back to where the whole last play started from the Avs end. Tampa had shot the puck into Avs end. The goalie came out and passed the puck to an Avs played on their own blue line. There was still another Avs player that had skated right in front of the Avs net. So that counted 2 players inside their own zone.
The Avs player on this blue line had the puck. At that time 1 Avs players was heading to the bench, I would say within a couple feet at most. Including the player heading off, there were 5 Avs players total in the neutral zone, and the 1 still way back by the Avs net.
So that was 6 at that time, but! That's where the rule "discretion of the on ice officials" comes into play. The Avs player deep in his own zone, forget him. The Avs player close to the bench was still on the ice, but!
The Avs player that had the puck was on the opposite side from their bench. He passed the puck up to an Avs player, right on the Bolts blue line(onside). At that same time they still had 6 players, including the 1 still back in the Avs zone, I think! The camera never showed him by the Avs bench, he was out of camera view.
The camera then follow the Avs player with the puck inside the Bolts blue line. You can still see the Avs player going off close to his bench, but! The camera angle moves and it no longer shows the Avs bench, but that player going off, had nothing to do with the ongoing play, nor did the player that was originally down by the Avs net.
Technically, neither the Avs player by his bench, nor the 1 still way behind the play, had anything to do with the goal being scored. Neither of them were actively in the play. Now this is how the USA Hockey Rule Book reads on this situation.
"If the puck is still in play, and it hits the player going off BEFORE the replacing player is on the ice, and the player leaving the ice does not play it, no problem. BUT, if the player COMING ONTO THE ICE, PLAYS the puck before the exiting player is completely OFF THE ICE ! TOO MANY MEN will be called. If neither the EXITING player or the ENTERING player, plays the puck, It IS NOT TOO MANY MEN".
Neither of the above rule meant anything in this case. The puck started on the opposite side of the ice from the Avs bench. It all happened almost in the middle of the ice. It was not even close to involving either player Avs by their bench.
Me being the Ref "Using my discretion", I call it a Legal Goal, as much i dislike doing so. To me that would be the correct call. While there were more than 5 Avs players on the ice. They had absolutely zero involvement in the winning goal scoring play.
Now I had to do a lot of "frame by frame" to see all of this. Unfortunately, the on-ice officials, see it in real time. And as I said, the ESPN cameras did not show all of this while the play was happening. It is unlike Offside Calls, where you see the area where the call is made. This play started when the Avs goalie passed the puck up to his teammate on his own blue line. It was almost a 200' play that started this winning goal.
Ya got all that? 🤔
As far as the goalies mask coming off? Your guess was as good as mine. I know when the mask comes off, the whistle blows, but! But the puck usually is not still in a scoring position. In fact, I don't remember a similar play to that ever happening.
I too was wondering if the Avs Coach was going to Challenge the goal, or have it reviewed. When he didn't, I figured he knew how it happened, and let it go. I still wondered but that was about it till it was explained.
This is what makes hockey so hard to officiate. It's fast/you have to stay out of the way/hard pucks flying at you and around you/sticks at times up in your face, and then there are deciphering all the "up to the officials discretion" rules.
That is why I am usually not too hard on the officials. It is a whole different view of the game when you are the one on ice level. The inherent dangers of getting hurt, are not quite the same as looking at it from the 10th row, or TV.
Things move faster and at times you feel you are always in the way. Then there are times you swear some players are trying to wipe you out, or hit you with the puck. Throw in the experts in the stands, and there you have it.
When do you want to give it a go? Phew
hckynut 🇺🇸
06-24-2022 04:26 AM
Finally have my Dad out of the hospital. So watching the game tomorrow night, and I'm with @yellowrose and rooting for the Av's! The whole 6 man thing, it's called karma with the Islanders last year.
One more game (hopefully )
06-24-2022 01:33 PM
Thanks for the post, @dmod nj . Seider is all we got right now!
Speaking of which, I wish Stevie would pick a coach soon!
I havent heard much from home of any rumors on who it may or may not be, but the coach pool is shrinking every day
I am still rooting for the Bolts, but it is looking less and less likely
Good Luck to the Bolts and Avs fans
Let's try to have a game with no controversy
LGRW
06-24-2022 01:37 PM
Hi everyone,
@hckynutjohn I did actually follow what you posted. THANK YOU! I knew you would know the rule based on your playing hockey and officiating. I also knew, you would look at it through unbiased eyes. Have you ever seen me on skates? No? Well, then let me tell you, there is no way in H E double hockey sticks I could ever do what you do/did! I so appreciate you taking the time to post.
@redhead handbag queen I'm pleased your dad is out of the hospital. I wish him a easy recovery. Take a moment for yourself. I've been where you are........it ain't easy and very tiring/draining/exhaustifying.
Enjoy the game tonight. So many of us are watching!
The Lightning are in Colorado. It's game 5. If the Avs win, they are the SC Champs. If the Lightning win, they play another game.
Any ideas of what will happen tonight?
@fairydogmother I wanna hear ya from your home to my home. LOL
Maaloxitinis are flowing tonight!
https://www.nhl.com/news/paul-maurice-hired-as-florida-panthers-coach/c-334703164
06-25-2022 11:13 AM
If you watched the game, you could see the difference in the "too many men" rule, called against the Avs late in Game 5. And why it was called and the same rule was not called, in Game 4.
In both instances there were 6 players on the ice. As I explained in my prior post, the difference was, who played the puck, and when. In both games, the officials made the call, in accordance with how the rule is written.
In Game 4 the correct call favored the Avs. In Game 5 however, it certainly made their attempt to tie the game, much, much harder. That's how the game of hockey shakes out from game to game. Making the calls, according to the Rule Book, can give either team a boost, or a kick in the butt.
I thought it was a well played game by both teams. Both goalies played at the top of their games, the officials from my view, called a good game. It was the type of game the majority of hockey fans love watching, especially if their team is not either of the teams involved.
DVR is set for Game 6 tomorrow, and I would be shocked, if there is not a Game 7. When the 2 best teams from an elimination are paired, that should be the Leagues best wish, consistent with their desire for Parity throughout the NHL.
hckynut 🇺🇸
06-25-2022 11:22 AM
@fairydogmother wrote:Game 4 tonight It's pivotal. Bolts need to even up the series. Here in the Tampa Bay area ppl are crazy excited! Well at least the hockey fans are. Everyone else can go about their sad, hockey-less little lives. Haha
a few more tickets became available, if you want to pay $1500 with your back against the wall in section 300 Row Z. Lol
Even those of us who are not 'die hard' fans get excited when the Bolts are in the playoff!!!
Every true Floridian is happy when the Bucs, Rays and Bolts bring home the trophy!
Would love to make history with a 3 in a row win!
Go Bolts!
06-25-2022 02:26 PM
Wooohooo! The SC Finals are going back to Tampa!!
@Zhills happy to see you here cheering for the Bolts!
@fairydogmother I think I heard you cheering on your boys, last night. Good job! They heard you and won!
Tomorrow's game is on ABC/ESPN+ at 8:00 eastern.
06-26-2022 03:41 PM
06-27-2022 01:01 PM
106 days!
LGRW
06-27-2022 01:17 PM - edited 06-27-2022 01:18 PM
Congrats to the Avs and their fans! They are the 2022 Stanley Cup winners!
Lightning fans, hold your heads up high!! What a run!
@redwingsgal you beat me to it. lol I can't wait!!
Please post any post season news, trades, and information about your team.
Thank you everyone for joining in and sharing your love of hockey and your team.
Please post any post season news here.
I'll start a new thread for the new season in October.
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