Pet Lovers

[Wannabeincali]

Hi! @tends2dogs

I just saw your post now.

Willie is a .....puppy??

I thought we were discussing an ADULT dog?

This changes things greatly.

I cannot give you recs for neither homecooked diets, nor multi vit for a puppy. Their nutritional requirements are greater than for adults, and structural issues can arise from either over or under supplementation. Calcium balance must be precise in home COOKED diets, esp for pups. Homecooked diets need calcium added in specific ratios to the phosphorous in a give recipe, but multi vit minerals for humans have some calcium....so the amount of Ca (calcium) you add to the recipe MUST be formulated accordingly. 

Let me know if Willie is indeed not even ONE year old. I think that is what I just read in your post? If so, I will ADJUST my recs for you. ALL probiotics, digestive enzymes, l glutamine, omega 3, borage oil, homeopathic detoxifier and homeopet products ARE SAFE FOR PUPPIES. 

However.....the herbal tinctures *I will give you info on this later* to fight the yeast overgrowth he probably has with the ibd, would nee to be adjusted in dose for a pup under 1 yr,old. My own pup was on this protocol, but she was 18 mos old...almost an adult.

Ok, please get back to me on Willie's age. 

I have a few meetings set for today, so I will respond later this evening.

In the meanwhile, plesse CALL AZMIRA tech support and ask them for a protocol for a PUPPYz who has yeast overgrowth/digestion problems/food allergy/IBD issues. Ask for puppy food recs (I think they must have a puppy food?), supplements, tinctures to dose, and ask for detailed instructions. Give them Willie's age. I woild also give him HIGH dose pro iotics....even in addition to Gastriplex. Give 2 to 3 x day. If you give Gastriplex in am, give a plain probiotic 1 or 2 more times that day. I would put him on l glutamine asap, as well as digestive enzymes. We use Blu Bonnet's l glute. We use Azmira Digest .Zymes. Add these to tje food. I would also give Colostrum by Symbiotic. This also helps immune system but does NOT overstimulate it *important for dogs with autoimmune issues/allergies*. You want to strengthen and support the immune system, but not huper stimulate it for those dogs. Colstrum is excellent for puppies and senior dogs!

Ok, I gotta go....but will be back later!

(I wish we had pm'ing here so I could give you my tel number! So much easier to guide you that way.....). Excuse the typos....I am on a tablet. :/

[tends2dogs]

@eddyandme  It sounds like you have it all worked out for your little guy and also the way you cared for Jade.  We really do the best that we can, don't we?  I have always taken it as a great responsibility to care for my pets and it sound like you do, too. 

I appreciate your kind words!

Tends~

[tends2dogs]

@Wannabeincali  Yes, Willie will be 11 months old on the 20th. 

I am not sure how far you went back on my posts, but I am currently working with an animal nutritionist for Willie's homemade food.  She is balancing it out nutritionally (you should see the spread sheet).  She is taking the calcium/phosphorous ratios all into consideration, along with all the supplements he gets.  She looked over all the supplements I had him on and tweaked them here and there.  She also added some of her own recommendations.  The recipe I am using now, during this stabilization period is nutritionally sound, using few ingredients.   Going forward, it will be changed as he is able to tolerate.  His first episode was March 2.  His last episode was April 1.  This must have been brewing in him for a month or so before the first  vomiting of blood.  He didn't gain any weight during this time, but now he is gaining again.  I feel confident in our holistic vet down here ( I am so glad I found her!) and the woman who is working with me on his food and supplements. 

Willie has taken probiotics, enzymes, and colostrum since the first day we had him.  I don't think he has yeast.  I don't know if it is something they would have seen while scoping him or in the biopsies, but it wasn't mentioned.  He has no yeast in any of his orifaces, if you know what I mean .  I am a VERY observant dog momma and I know every inch of my pooch.

I appreciate your recs for supplements.  I am always open to checking out different brands.  I really don't want to look further for food advice at this point.  He is doing well, and there comes a point where I have to trust my vet and this nutritionist.  The holistic vet up north has concurred with the protocol I am following.  That being said, I am keeping all the resources you have suggested should I run into problems. 

This is my (almost) 11 month old pup~~~~~

You can see where he had his leg shaved for the anesthesia for the endoscopy. 

Thanks again for all your help and suggestions.  This seems to be a common malady with our pets.  This hasn't been too difficult once I got the proper amounts for everything.  I have been cooking for my dogs for many, many years and  I have to say that I really wasn't too far off.......thank goodness!  I have never had a vet before that knew anything about supplements, so this has been great finding one that does. 

If you think of anything else to add, please do. 

Thanks again,

Tends~

[tends2dogs]

  @Wannabeincali    I just thought of something else ~the b-naturals.com website is where I got my info about timing heartworm meds in association with the temperature and also the proper dosing - recommended is WAY too much.  I like that website for info and I will look into their articles about IBD........thanks for the reminder! 

[Wannabeincali]

Hi!! @tends2dogs

Omgosh!!! I was about to go into a meeting, BUT I just saw his CUTIEPIE pics and just had to comment!! Wow! Willie is so GORGEOUS!!  Congrats on your furbaby!! And if that is your home property, wow! Gorgeous, too!  That puppy though! Awwwwwww! I just wanna hug and kiss him!

I a so happy you have a nutritionist who has a handle on things!  And a great vet, too. Those are hard to come by, lately,. We finally found one in a neighboring state! He is worth the extra drive though. He doesn't fight me on holistic nutrition, as the others did. 

Well, if you have not tried  L-glutamine, definitely add that. Other than that, I would suggest the homeopathic detoxifier and Homeopet Digestive Upsets. Perhaps speak to your holistic vet about that.

Neutering.....

Must you neuter him so soon?

I ask because spaying my pup at 1 yo, after she had the antibiotics for an ear infection at age 5 mos (vets did NOT treat her properly for the infection because they never took a culture!), totally shot her immune system to heck. Spaying her meant anesthesia, antibiotics, and steroids. A nightmare. She had a BAD reaction to rimadyl. We took her off of it, and they gave her tramadol for the pain....which she did better on, but these meds all take their toll on the immune system. By the age of 18 mos, she was a mess.....which is when we began holistic treatment. If I could do it over, I would have first waited to strengthen her immune system until she was at least 15 mos old. Then, do the spay. On the other hand, back then I did NOT know much about probiotics, except to use it on rescues with loose stools. Willie is way ahead of the curve here, so maybe his neuter will not weaken his system as much. Just make sure you discuss the meds with your vet. I will NEVER let my dogs have rimadyl.....ever. A relative of ours almost lost her cocker to a bad reaction from it. Horrible.

I have to run, but I will check back in later. If you are interested in any of the Azmira products (the tinctures and sipplements are fantastic! Even people can take them!), their tech support is 520 886 1727. Given that Willie has vomited up blood (oh gosh, poor puppy!), I am not sure which supplements would be ok. Discuss with your vet and Azmira. Also, I am not sure alcohol based tinctures are suitable for his condition. I do always evaporate the alcohol off by adding the drops to a HOT  1/2 cup of water. I let it cool completely before dosing.

I am going to research and read through your other threads, to get a better picture of what Willie has had going on. I wonder if SLIPPERY ELM would help?  They have capsules you can break open and add to his water bowl. Ask your holistic vet.

Btw, Lew Olson runs the yahoo K9Nutrition group, and is the author of the b-naturals wellness newsletters. ! It is excellent! Join and post to the group about Willie's case to see of they can offer suggestions.  Mary Strauss from Dogaware website also has great articles on IBD. Whole Dog Journal website may also have some good info. And yes, B-naturals is a goldmine of info!

Well, again.....what a gorgeous puppy!! I am going to show his pics at my meeting! A bit off topic, but OMG....he is soooooooo CUTE!!  

[tends2dogs]

@Wannabeincali  This is going to be a quick reply for right now.  Why did your babe have to have antibiotics and steroids after spaying?  I have never had to use those with any of my 5 other dogs when they were fixed. Willie handled the anesthesia for the scope very well.  I had one dog "try" Rimadyl.  I agree, I hate it, would never use it.  Willie has had no meds so far.  I am not sure what to do about heartworm yet.  The mosquitoes are terrible this year.  We spray our yard with natural oils, but as they say, it only takes one. 

Yes, the blood in the vomit was a shocker.  He had 4 or 5 episodes about a week apart.  The IBD has not affected his stool, thank God.  The holistic vet gave him Arsenicum album for that. 

Have to run, but will check back later~

[Wannabeincali]

Hi!  @tends2dogs.

Well, 15 yrs ago it was pretty standard to give pred to reduce inflammation, antibiotics (her breeder insisted on this because she warned me that Shih Tzus can easily get infections when put on a steroid, as it lowers your immune system --- she was right. I will never put her on steroids ever again, but if I had to, I will demand they put her on an antibiotic. Long story short, a few years later the vets almost killed her after putting her on pred....against my wishes.....and NOT putting her on an antibiotic. She should never have been on Pred. She was mksdiagnosed as having a muscular injury, when I suspected it was an internal issue.....having to do with the bacterial content in her new food. She was RAW fed at the time (a pre made raw food for dogs), and I told the vets I was scared to have her on pred without the antibiotic. I told them it was not a muscle injury. As you, I know my dog! They treated me as if I were some dumb blonde bimbo, and they seemed to hate dog show people....so anything I passed along from her breeder was scoffed at. She had been in the breed for over 30 years (back then!). These worthless vets did not even know that Shih Tzus have their tails down ONLY when sick! When I pointed her down turned tail, I was told "yeah, all dogs do." ????

I should have fought harder for her, but they made me feel that they knew best. Wrong! Their refusal to put her on Clavamox while on pred, resulted in an infection that almost killed her. $5000 later after rushing her to the ER animal hospital one midnight, and after many tests, drugs, endoscopy, radiographs, and winding up with a feeding tube in her side for 2 months! Guess what CURED her? Yup, a month long course of Baytril AND Clavamox! Had they listened to the breeder and me, she would not have suffered so much. It was a hellacious nightmare. My opinion? If you ever have to put your dog on steroids, also do a low course of antibiotics....to be safe...esp if you have a Toy breed.) After that nigjtmare, I NEVER again allowed any vet to over ride my wishes. And I always defer to her breeder. This puppy came from one of the best Shih Tzu show breeders in the USA, and vets nearly destroyed her. First by not diagnosing her ear infection when she was only 5 mos old (we had to go to 3 different vet clinics before we found a vet who knew what he was doing. Ugh!). And then again we had a health crisis caused by vets, with that nightmare ER situation. We really thought we were going to lose her. We were devistated. 

So, yeah.....for her spay, thankfully that vet did put her on an antibiotic along with the pred. The NSAID was for pain. Her surgeon was very good. You could not see any scarring. However, the healing process was rough. My pup did not want to keep still and kept trying to get at her stitches. And she cried a lot. It was awful. Once off Rimadyl, and on Tramadol, she was fine. I wish I had known about arnica montana30c for inflammation, and Rescue Remedy to calm her, and probiotics for her immune system, etc. I would have dosed Arnica instead of Pred in a heartbeat! 

****As I expected, everyone in our meeting went gaga over your cutie pie Willie! Is he an Old Eng Sheepdog? We have some good friends in California who have two adult OES! Just stunning.....and massive looking with all that fluffy coat. I thought grooming a Shih Tzu was time consuming, but...??? Lol***

***********************

EDIT:

Hi again!

I forgot to mention:

HEARTWORM MEDICATION

Do NOT use IVERMECTIN based heartworm medication (such as Heartgard!) on sheepdogs, collies, and a few other breeds. I am sure you already know this, but for anyone else reading who may not know, I wanted to add this info. Google for more info.

I do use it for my breed because they are fine with it, but one should NOT use it for sheepdogs, collies, and a slew of other breeds.. Contact your breeder to find out which heartworm med is best. I have read on some sites that Heartgard's amount of ivermectin is in a safe range for sheepdogs with the MDR1 mutation, BUT I am NOT sure if that is true. Speak to breeders, your vet, your AKC breed club, etc, to find what they rec.

I used to use INTERCEPTOR for years, but then it was discontinued. Now, it is back, but no longer made by Novartis. I am too scared to try it, but Interceptor used to be safe for sheepdogs. I do not know the ingredients in it now. Google it. 

I hate pumping any dog with flea, tick, heartworm meds......but I will not chance her getting lymes disease, heartworms, etc. I DO also use NEEM spray as a holistic bug repellant, but from May thru Oct, I DO give her Frontline Plus (if she will be in places she might get into contact with a flea or tick....which is rarely!), and I DO dose the heartworm preventative because we have LOTS of mosquitos here.

HOMEOPATHIC DETOXIFIER & Herbal Milk Thistle--

I ALWAYS put her on 2 weeks of nightly doses of AZMIRA DETOXIFIER (or Newton Detoxifier) after giving Frontline Plus and heartworm meds. I also give 1 capsule per day of Milk Thistle. I either pour contents onto her food and mix in. Or I mix it into water and oral syringe it. Detoxifier cleanses the kidneys, blood, and liver. Milk .Thistle detoxes and heals the liver. Personally, if you live in a mosoquito heavy area, I would get him on a SAFE for his breed, heartworm med. Follow up with the detox. JMO. 

Hth! 

[tends2dogs]

@Wannabeincali  What a story!!  Wow, I hate that vets just don't get the training for anything alternative and then are condescending when you mention anything not standard of care.  They act like it is voodoo or something.  Sad....... 

It sounds as if your arsenal of "cures" is similar to mine.  I never leave home with out it LOL!  Arnica is a Godsend and we all use it often.   Did you know that Hypericum Perf.  is the homeopathic to be used in a similar way to Arnica.  Arnica is more for muscle soreness or bruises where Hypericum is for nerve damage and injury to extremities.  I fell walking Willie and stubbed the end of my toe.  It felt really weird and the Hypericum worked well.

Yes, Willie is an OES.  We found a breeder that doesn't doc the tails.  She also doesn't vacinate her pups.  We received Willie with no vaccinations.....YAY!  He is our second one to have a tail and I would never want a dog again without one.  We had 4 that were docked and we never knew how much we were missing as far as showing emotions!

I know about Ivermectin having found out by experience.  Our sweet Jack had a seizure after taking it.  This was in 2000.  Our vet had never heard about the herding dog warning.  I had to take him the info!  Anyway, ever since, I have given Interceptor.......not Interceptor Plus.  I give as little as possible.  I am going to look into the Homeopathic Detoxifier.  I already have and use Milk Thistle.  I gave Willie Thuja after his ONE distemper/parvo.  We titered him and immunization had taken place.......no more for life!  He still has to receive a rabies and I will treat with Thuja afterwards also.

Again, thanks for all your help.  I will stay in touch and please, do the same. 

Tends~

[Wannabeincali]

@tends2dogs

Hi!

Oh gosh! I think you may be my holistic therapies twin!

OT, but thanks for the info on Hypernicum! I have never used it. 

Would this work for pinched nerve issues? 

My mom (94 yo) constantly falls asleep in her chair, and her head falls forward. She refuses naps, or to wear a neck brace, etc. Now she occasionally has stabbing nerve pain radiating into parts of her arms.I know it is due to how her head drops when she nodsmoff while seated. We try to get her to do neck stretches, and to sit up straight...but some days it is a real struggle. We use heat pads and massage, and that helps UNTIL she re injures her neck. If hypernicum can help, I will try it for her. The aides have their hands full. Lol 

Thanks!

ps. We also do titers. She is never outside unless on lead with is, so I feel confident in not doing so many vaccines. She did get puppy shots and 1 booster, and rabies vac. Shih Tzus should NOT get the lepto vaccine, as it can kill them. Her old vets were not aware of that fact, either!  Around here, if it is not a Lab or Golden, the vets seem NOT to know about breed specific issues. I, too, had to research everything. Imwould go in with a folder full of articles I printed out. My husband used to tease and saymthat when they saw me coming in, all the vets and vet techs would scatter! LOL

.....it was probably true....

[tends2dogs]

  @WannabeincaliIt would be worth a try and it certainly wouldn't hurt.  Have you every used topical arnica?  That might be worth trying, too.

We do sound alike.  I have always said that I am sure that every doctor that my husband and I have gone to and every vet I have taken my dogs to probably had DIFFICULT written on our charts - LOL.  Oh well.  It is sad how many people that blindly do "whatever" the doctor says because they are the "doctor".  They wouldn't think to question anything.  That has never been me nor will it ever be.....as long as I can talk and think LOL, I am going to question and make suggestions.

One last thing - there is slippery elm in the Gastriplex.