Kitchen

[funwun]

Funny, I'm just under 40 and can tell you most of my friends who married their college sweethearts are now divorced...and that includes my male friends....some of them are happily on their second marriages however. It's surprising how prevalent this is in my generation. I never married my college sweetheart, although I spent well over a decade supporting his aspirations and dreams....I was smart enough not to marry him because I wouldn't be the happy, self- fulfilled person I am today....oh and I'm in a wonderful relationship. College is a great experience and is meant for educational and personal growth....if you happen to meet your future spouse, great...and if you don't, that's great too lol!!!

[Alsee]

I want my daughter to go to college to find her independence, her interests, and to learn to support herself at something she loves doing. Finding her life partner should come after she's grown up and lived on her own. I can only hope...... At 7 thankfully she has a way to go.

[suzyQ3]

On 3/20/2014 house cat said:

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that I think the women's liberation movement was good and bad for our society. Yes, I believe woman should get an education. I have a Master's degree, thank goodness, because my husband is currently out of work and I can support us. It does seem though, that in my parents' generation, men were a little more careful about switching jobs, changing careers and taking risks because they knew they were the breadwinners and there was no option. Nowadays, they seem to know they can fall back on the wife's salary. In the meantime, the whole family is losing out by not having the mom at home. I don't believe that husbands are better off now with over-worked, over-stressed wives. Woman should have options, I agree, but the pendulum has swung way off in the other direction and to the detriment of the family unit, in my opinion.

I guess my rant is a bit off the subject. I suppose what I'm saying is that we might have been better off before when couples valued marriage more and roles were more traditional.

So what exactly should those options be that you admit women should have but that you still seem to be worried about in terms of pendulum-swinging? I'm just not understanding the implication of strings attached to our options.

And the respect of marriage does not hinge on roles that are necessarily traditional. When roles were more "traditional," it didn't necessarily lead to better marriages. In fact, I'd wager that couples who felt constrained to stay together or women who felt they had no options or men who felt the enormous financial responsibility that they shouldered alone resulted in a host of problems. I say this as a kid who was observant way back then.

I just can't believe that we are having this conversation in 2014.

[house cat]

On 3/20/2014 suzyQ3 said:

On 3/20/2014 house cat said:

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that I think the women's liberation movement was good and bad for our society. Yes, I believe woman should get an education. I have a Master's degree, thank goodness, because my husband is currently out of work and I can support us. It does seem though, that in my parents' generation, men were a little more careful about switching jobs, changing careers and taking risks because they knew they were the breadwinners and there was no option. Nowadays, they seem to know they can fall back on the wife's salary. In the meantime, the whole family is losing out by not having the mom at home. I don't believe that husbands are better off now with over-worked, over-stressed wives. Woman should have options, I agree, but the pendulum has swung way off in the other direction and to the detriment of the family unit, in my opinion.

I guess my rant is a bit off the subject. I suppose what I'm saying is that we might have been better off before when couples valued marriage more and roles were more traditional.

So what exactly should those options be that you admit women should have but that you still seem to be worried about? I'm just not understanding. The respect of marriage does not hinge on roles that are necessarily traditional.

When roles were more "traditional," it didn't necessarily lead to better marriages. In fact, I'd wager that couples who felt constrained to stay together or women who felt they had no options or men who felt the enormous financial responsibility that they shouldered alone resulted in a host of problems. I say this as a kid who was observant way back then.

I just can't believe that we are having this conversation in 2014.

I understand. I can hardly believe that I'm the one who said that, but the older I get, the more traditional I seem to be getting. I, for instance, am in the situation of dealing with a "child" who will likely never be completely independent as well as caring for aging parents. In the meantime, I'm supporting my husband and myself. This is the "liberation" we women wanted? Well, we got it.

By "options", I was referring to those women who for whatever reason, want to remain single, or those women who feel they cannot be complete without a career outside the home.

[suzyQ3]

On 3/20/2014 house cat said:

On 3/20/2014 suzyQ3 said:

On 3/20/2014 house cat said:

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that I think the women's liberation movement was good and bad for our society. Yes, I believe woman should get an education. I have a Master's degree, thank goodness, because my husband is currently out of work and I can support us. It does seem though, that in my parents' generation, men were a little more careful about switching jobs, changing careers and taking risks because they knew they were the breadwinners and there was no option. Nowadays, they seem to know they can fall back on the wife's salary. In the meantime, the whole family is losing out by not having the mom at home. I don't believe that husbands are better off now with over-worked, over-stressed wives. Woman should have options, I agree, but the pendulum has swung way off in the other direction and to the detriment of the family unit, in my opinion.

I guess my rant is a bit off the subject. I suppose what I'm saying is that we might have been better off before when couples valued marriage more and roles were more traditional.

So what exactly should those options be that you admit women should have but that you still seem to be worried about? I'm just not understanding. The respect of marriage does not hinge on roles that are necessarily traditional.

When roles were more "traditional," it didn't necessarily lead to better marriages. In fact, I'd wager that couples who felt constrained to stay together or women who felt they had no options or men who felt the enormous financial responsibility that they shouldered alone resulted in a host of problems. I say this as a kid who was observant way back then.

I just can't believe that we are having this conversation in 2014.

I understand. I can hardly believe that I'm the one who said that, but the older I get, the more traditional I seem to be getting. I, for instance, am in the situation of dealing with a "child" who will likely never be completely independent as well as caring for aging parents. In the meantime, I'm supporting my husband and myself. This is the "liberation" we women wanted? Well, we got it.

By "options", I was referring to those women who for whatever reason, want to remain single, or those women who feel they cannot be complete without a career outside the home.

Yes, life does throw us curveballs, doesn't it?

But this aptly serves to prove the point about the importance of education and the ability to function independently in society. You are an educated woman who apparently can fend for herself and others, in no small part due to (I'd even say primarily) to the change in our status.

It's easy to forget that not too long ago, historically speaking, women were considered property, second-class citizens, too weak and silly even to have the right to vote.

It sounds as if you have much on your plate right now. I wish you well, house cat.

[LilacTree]

I was married twice, the first was an engineer with whom I had four children in four-and-a-half years (my age 24-28). The second was a lawyer with whom I had no children, thankfully. One would think "good choices," but no, they weren't.

I didn't go to college. I took commercial courses in high school . . . typing and stenography, and I was a top notch English student. I spent eight years out of the workforce raising my children, but after the two divorces, was a single working mother until I retired at age 66. Fortunately for me, the computer age hit around 1980 and I got very involved in that. I worked for a CPA firm for 24 years and ran their computer department for 16 of those years. I was in the right place at the right time with the right skills.

I never married again. I was fortunate to be able to support myself and my four children, since their father moved to California with his third wife and sent meager support even after he was making well into six figures. There was no reciprocity in the 70s and I didn't have the money to hire a lawyer to go for more child support, so I never did, and we made it anyway.

In keeping with this thread, I am glad I had my children young, as they learned at a very young age that a woman has to do it on her own . . . they bought their own clothes, cars, paid for their own educations (I was eligible for financial aid, which helped, as their father contributed nothing), paid for their own weddings, made their own mistakes and survived them. I am now 76 and they are in their mid to late forties, the oldest turning 51 last June. They gave me six wonderful grandchildren, the oldest of which is now 26 and the youngest is 11. It's been a full life.

[ETA: Hmm, I think I got this thread mixed up with another one.]

[jaburg]

Hmm, I was already married to my DH of now 38 years when I went to college. Never occurred to me to look for guys! I already have the best, so no point I guess

[mistriTsquirrel]

Honestly, I wish I'd had my eyes open during college regarding dating.

There were a few guys I might've dated if I'd realized they were interested...but I was too blind to flirtation...I always took it as friendliness; now I look back and realize what they were getting at...and I'm alone.

My parents didn't want me to get married before I graduated college. They got their wish...but now they have a 36-year-old daughter who will probably never bear them grandchildren. Even if I were to get pregnant tomorrow by some random sperm donor, it is unlikely that my father would live to see the child born. My father will probably not live to walk me down the aisle.

I doubt I will ever have children. I hope I will someday marry...but I feel I may have waited too long.

[house cat]

I hear ya, MistriTsquirrel. I envy those people who are so sure they made all the right decisions in their lives. I so often think how different my life would be if I hadn't gotten married. I love my family, but there's always a part of me that wishes I'd taken a different road.

At 36, you are younger than you think. Your situation could change in a moment, but if not, you can certainly lead a happy, rewarding life without children or a husband. Spoil yourself!