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[goldensrbest]

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@CamilleP wrote:

Witchy Woman, I'd love to post pictures but I have no idea how, LOL!   I will see if I can use the icon that says "insert image" and get a picture from my computer to this post,,,,

Okay, that was easier than I thought!  This  is a photo taken last year of my only current Scottie, his name is Johnny.

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That is a west highland , scotties are black. They call them westies.

[CamilleP]

Thank you, NickNack and Witchy Woman, Johnny would be happy to meet you, cover you in muddy pawprints, and top that with hair all over!  That's one drawback to Scotties, that "dust ruffle" (technically called their furnishings) picks up every stray leaf, loose blade of grass, small twig or hunk of moss and drags it back into the house with them. 

NickNack, I think you are right, especially since the forum she originally posted in was the Electronics forum, a moderator moved her OP to the Home forum.  If she doesn't sign in often, she may not even know her post has been moved, since one only gets notifications of replies, tags, hearts, etc. if one is actually signed in.  Most of the time I don't sign in, either, honestly, unless I want to reply to something I've read.

Witchy Woman, most people only ever think of Scotties as black dogs because, during their heyday in the show ring and the public eye, the black color was most popular because it was the easiest to show and groom for the show ring, since all the hairs were the same color from root to tip, little areas where one pulled the coat down too tightly or actually pulled a hole in it didn't snow as much because all the hairs were solid black.  Black wasn't even an original color in the ancestral breed, they came in all shades of wheaten and brindle, from light to dark.  My foundation stud dog was a dark red wheaten with a cream undercoat, he was gorgeous in both body and spirit, a truly versatile, intelligent gentleman of a dog whom I miss to this very day.  I've had many blacks, brindles and wheatens through the years, the 14 year old we just lost last month was a black brindle, the most common color.  Johnny's breeder just finished the championship of his great-niece, she's a silver brindle with a black mask, a very striking girl!  If you go to the homepage of the Scottish Terrier Club of America you can see pictures of all the colors of Scotties, the only colors that aren't allowed in the show ring are pure white or dogs with white markings, other than a little tag of white on the chin or chest.  Other than that, Scotties can be any color, although the mutation for chocolate has never occurred in the breed.

[CamilleP]

Sorry, Goldensarebest, that is a purebred, registered Scottish Terrier of championship ancestry going back decades and generations, I ought to know, I own him!!! (oh, and that ancestry includes the Westminster Best In Show Scottie from 1995, whom I bred.)

West Highland White Terriers are not golden in color, they should not even have "biscuit" coloring on their faces, ear tips and topline, but many do, because the white color has been selected for from the ancestral bloodstock of the old Scotch Terrier, the ancestor of the Cairn, Scottie and Westie.  The Scottie branched off first, and the Westie branched off the Cairn when a nobleman hunting foxes shot his red Cairn by accident, thinking it was a fox.  From then on he only bred the palest dogs he could find, selecting over and over again for the palest wheatens, until the breed we know today is essentially solid white.  Genetically, though, they are still a wheaten dog, just bred to be as pale as possible.  In Scotties, we breed our wheatens to retain their color, they can range from gold all the way to dark red, though most are a medium golden tone.

[goldensrbest]

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@CamilleP wrote:

Sorry, Goldensarebest, that is a purebred, registered Scottish Terrier of championship ancestry going back decades and generations, I ought to know, I own him!!! (oh, and that ancestry includes the Westminster Best In Show Scottie from 1995, whom I bred.)

West Highland White Terriers are not golden in color, they should not even have "biscuit" coloring on their faces, ear tips and topline, but many do, because the white color has been selected for from the ancestral bloodstock of the old Scotch Terrier, the ancestor of the Cairn, Scottie and Westie.  The Scottie branched off first, and the Westie branched off the Cairn when a nobleman hunting foxes shot his red Cairn by accident, thinking it was a fox.  From then on he only bred the palest dogs he could find, selecting over and over again for the palest wheatens, until the breed we know today is essentially solid white.  Genetically, though, they are still a wheaten dog, just bred to be as pale as possible.  In Scotties, we breed our wheatens to retain their color, they can range from gold all the way to dark red, though most are a medium golden tone.

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My mom had 3 westies, and they looked like the picture you posted.She also had two carins.

[CamilleP]

John is paler than average, plus he's clippered, so he doesn't have as much color in his coat as he would if he were being stripped for shows.  Also, the sun was bright that day, washing him out even more. 

If your Mom's Westies were getting Scottie haircuts, they would resemble Sccotties, but the head's actual shape and size is different, Westies and Cairns have shorter heads overall, and the muzzle is just fractionally shorter than the topskull.  In addition, Scotties have the largest teeth of the three by a noticeable degree.  Also, Cairns and Westies tend to be a little higher on leg, Scotties have heavier bodies that are slung low, between their front legs, their actual weight is also heavier than the standards for Cairns and Westies.  Finally, there is a noticeable difference in the front feet of the three breeds.  Scotties have much larger front feet than rear feet, and their feet are much larger than Cairn and Westie front feet.

I know these differences may seem slight, and not visible to most people, but to breeders and those who show dogs, they are very significant.  In addition, the differences tend to disappear in random-bred populations, so a puppy mill Westie and a puppy mill wheaten Scottie will look more like each other than dogs from show lines.  Also, when wheaten Scotties first began to appear in pet stores, it was not uncommon for them to actually be about 75% Westie, because the color is recessive to the dark color gene, so, to introduce the wheaten gene into their Scottie population they did crosses with Westies if they couldn't buy wheaten Scotties to get it.  So the physical differences were reduced in pet bred populations where this cross-breeding occurred.

[Witchy Woman]

@CamilleP 

Johnny is handsome, no matter his color.  I've been a cat person all my life, but there are few dogs I don't love, although I prefer the smaller breeds.

My sister-in-law has a Golden Retriever and he is the sweetest soul.  Loves to play keep away with his toy.  He was given up by the owner and had a hard time settling down with my SIL.  

My husband and I decided he needed a crate as his safe place and that helped a great deal.  She should have figured this out on her own, but....well, that's another story.

Anyway, thanks for telling me about Scotties.  Those little faces are so inquisitive and smart.  I know Johnny is a joy to have!

[goldensrbest]

Finding really good breeders of any pure breds, is not easy ,doing all the test for eyes,heart ,linage is very important.Two of my goldens were back yard breeders, my first jamie died at not quite 9 ,of bone cancer, my other kooper lived until last year ,15 yrs. and 8 months, all the rest has been from high quality breeders, that do all the testing,and linage . But loved all of them.

[CamilleP]

Thank you, Witchy Woman, Johnny is indeed a joy to have as a companion.  Except when he's being Puppy Underfoot in the kitchen when I am cooking, LOL.  I gave him a haircut yesterday, and he was being super-silly, racing around the house afterwards, running up his ramp and jumping on the bed and spinning in circles, I guess he was celebrating his haircut like a football player celebrates a touchdown?  He's an especially sweet boy, he loves every dog and person he meets.  His only failing is that he has virtually no hunting instinct, except for squirrels.  If a coyote jumped into our yard, he'd run to meet it, thinking it was his new best friend.  I pray daily that that never happens!

[Katcat1]

My girlfriend has a scottie and collects all scottie items.  Radley's trademark is a Scottie and on all their handbags, wallets, etc.  Google Scottie dog and all kinds of items will pop up.

[CamilleP]

KatCat1, I ought to be ashamed of how many Scottie collectibles I have, but I'm not.    I swear, once you get your first Scottie, the urge to collect everything "Scottie" infects you, your eyes seek out that unique silhouette in every situation, and you take up crafting in order to be able to make things you can't buy!