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Trusted Contributor
Posts: 3,874
Registered: ‎03-09-2010

Re: Joan Rivers re The N Y Times - not speculation

On 9/13/2014 Sheesh said:

The treatment of Joan was so shameful it is beyond imagination! I am just sick, sick,, sick at the loss of her. People everywhere are reeling over this. In my small town in Western Massachusetts, people were toasting to her in a restaurant last night, and a woman told me she was at another place the night before and they were toasting her there, as well. I hope Melissa and Cooper really know how much Joan was admired and appreciated and that people are really sad and angry at her premature loss. Joan could have gone another strong 10 years---she could have seen Cooper graduate from college---it's more than a shame, it's outrageous!

Certainly the unexpected passing of this prominent, talented, much-loved woman is sad for her family, friends and fans. However, whether it is "shameful" or "outrageous" depends on the results of the ongoing investigation (the full results of which have not yet been released). Also, it's important to keep some perspective. Joan may have been lively and active, but she was elderly -- in her 80's -- had undergone many elective surgeries and anesthesias, and reportedly had problems with heart arrythmia. Yes, she might have lived another ten active, productive years -- or her sudden passing may have spared her some of the illness, disability, and decline that often come with advancing age. We'll never know.

At the very least, her death is motivating a fresh look at the pros, cons, and possible risks of outpatient surgery centers. All of us await the facts of the investigation into her death and wish peace and healing for her family. What a personality and what a talent. She will be missed.

Respected Contributor
Posts: 4,997
Registered: ‎03-12-2010

Re: Joan Rivers re The N Y Times - not speculation

As an RN for a long time, I have really NOT seen much "negligence."

I am sure there are a lot of anecdotes out there. Not everything goes well. MOST things do.

There are no perfect human beings in medicine or anywhere else. Things HAPPEN, and they mostly are NOT negligence.

Joan was 81 years old. The older we are, the more likely negative things can happen.

However, an outpatient surgery clinic should have all the abilities for resuscitation available. The staff has to have the knowledge and training for ANY emergency.

People need to CALM DOWN and wait to hear what happened. If something went wrong, I hope all outpatient surgical clinics learn from it.

At this time, talk of lawsuits is irresponsible. Those of us in the medical profession go to work EVERY DAY with that hanging over our heads.

Hyacinth

Super Contributor
Posts: 1,906
Registered: ‎09-26-2011

Re: Joan Rivers re The N Y Times - not speculation

On 9/13/2014 hyacinth003 said:

As an RN for a long time, I have really NOT seen much "negligence."

I am sure there are a lot of anecdotes out there. Not everything goes well. MOST things do.

There are no perfect human beings in medicine or anywhere else. Things HAPPEN, and they mostly are NOT negligence.

Joan was 81 years old. The older we are, the more likely negative things can happen.

However, an outpatient surgery clinic should have all the abilities for resuscitation available. The staff has to have the knowledge and training for ANY emergency.

People need to CALM DOWN and wait to hear what happened. If something went wrong, I hope all outpatient surgical clinics learn from it.

At this time, talk of lawsuits is irresponsible. Those of us in the medical profession go to work EVERY DAY with that hanging over our heads.

Hyacinth

You are a very wise woman, Hyacinth. You said it all so well. : )

Esteemed Contributor
Posts: 7,423
Registered: ‎03-10-2010

Re: Joan Rivers re The N Y Times - not speculation

On 9/13/2014 GoodStuff said:
On 9/13/2014 Sheesh said:

The treatment of Joan was so shameful it is beyond imagination! I am just sick, sick,, sick at the loss of her. People everywhere are reeling over this. In my small town in Western Massachusetts, people were toasting to her in a restaurant last night, and a woman told me she was at another place the night before and they were toasting her there, as well. I hope Melissa and Cooper really know how much Joan was admired and appreciated and that people are really sad and angry at her premature loss. Joan could have gone another strong 10 years---she could have seen Cooper graduate from college---it's more than a shame, it's outrageous!

Certainly the unexpected passing of this prominent, talented, much-loved woman is sad for her family, friends and fans. However, whether it is "shameful" or "outrageous" depends on the results of the ongoing investigation (the full results of which have not yet been released). Also, it's important to keep some perspective. Joan may have been lively and active, but she was elderly -- in her 80's -- had undergone many elective surgeries and anesthesias, and reportedly had problems with heart arrythmia. Yes, she might have lived another ten active, productive years -- or her sudden passing may have spared her some of the illness, disability, and decline that often come with advancing age. We'll never know.

At the very least, her death is motivating a fresh look at the pros, cons, and possible risks of outpatient surgery centers. All of us await the facts of the investigation into her death and wish peace and healing for her family. What a personality and what a talent. She will be missed.

If anything, her elective surgeries displayed her strong tolerance for anethesia. And is that an attempt at a 'half glass full' analysis? That she was spared illness, disability, etc that often comes with advanced age?? !! Don't take this wrong- but that is simply twisted !! {#emotions_dlg.crying}

Honored Contributor
Posts: 10,853
Registered: ‎03-10-2010

Re: Joan Rivers re The N Y Times - not speculation

On 9/13/2014 champagnepoodle said:
On 9/13/2014 hyacinth003 said:

As an RN for a long time, I have really NOT seen much "negligence."

I am sure there are a lot of anecdotes out there. Not everything goes well. MOST things do.

There are no perfect human beings in medicine or anywhere else. Things HAPPEN, and they mostly are NOT negligence.

Joan was 81 years old. The older we are, the more likely negative things can happen.

However, an outpatient surgery clinic should have all the abilities for resuscitation available. The staff has to have the knowledge and training for ANY emergency.

People need to CALM DOWN and wait to hear what happened. If something went wrong, I hope all outpatient surgical clinics learn from it.

At this time, talk of lawsuits is irresponsible. Those of us in the medical profession go to work EVERY DAY with that hanging over our heads.

Hyacinth

You are a very wise woman, Hyacinth. You said it all so well. : )

I also feel, sometimes Doctors concede to the demands and wishes of the really famous. Not so much the rich, but the famous. Look at the drugs, procedures, and care some get that they normally would say no to. Joan bringing her own Doctor that does not have privileges is worrisome. But we will see. When all is said and done, the truth will be revealed. It still is a little early after Joan's death to get all the facts. Everyone is scrambling to protect and brace themselves for law suits and liabilities. We will see.

Trusted Contributor
Posts: 3,874
Registered: ‎03-09-2010

Re: Joan Rivers re The N Y Times - not speculation

On 9/13/2014 ibb38 said:
On 9/13/2014 GoodStuff said:
On 9/13/2014 Sheesh said:

The treatment of Joan was so shameful it is beyond imagination! I am just sick, sick,, sick at the loss of her. People everywhere are reeling over this. In my small town in Western Massachusetts, people were toasting to her in a restaurant last night, and a woman told me she was at another place the night before and they were toasting her there, as well. I hope Melissa and Cooper really know how much Joan was admired and appreciated and that people are really sad and angry at her premature loss. Joan could have gone another strong 10 years---she could have seen Cooper graduate from college---it's more than a shame, it's outrageous!

Certainly the unexpected passing of this prominent, talented, much-loved woman is sad for her family, friends and fans. However, whether it is "shameful" or "outrageous" depends on the results of the ongoing investigation (the full results of which have not yet been released). Also, it's important to keep some perspective. Joan may have been lively and active, but she was elderly -- in her 80's -- had undergone many elective surgeries and anesthesias, and reportedly had problems with heart arrythmia. Yes, she might have lived another ten active, productive years -- or her sudden passing may have spared her some of the illness, disability, and decline that often come with advancing age. We'll never know.

At the very least, her death is motivating a fresh look at the pros, cons, and possible risks of outpatient surgery centers. All of us await the facts of the investigation into her death and wish peace and healing for her family. What a personality and what a talent. She will be missed.

If anything, her elective surgeries displayed her strong tolerance for anethesia. And is that an attempt at a 'half glass full' analysis? That she was spared illness, disability, etc that often comes with advanced age?? !! Don't take this wrong- but that is simply twisted !! {#emotions_dlg.crying}

Nope......just an honest observation that the above poster's comment that Joan "could have gone on another strong ten years" and seen her descendents finish college might or might not have come true. We never know, do we? I'm currently dealing with the care of my husband's very elderly mother -- with dementia, in a wheelchair, in a nursing home -- and went through the same sad process with my mom earlier. My hope for myself is that I live an active, aware, full life and then pass on suddenly in my sleep before I start to seriously fall apart. Not a bad deal, overall.

Trusted Contributor
Posts: 1,170
Registered: ‎03-09-2010

Re: Joan Rivers re The N Y Times - not speculation

I believe it was on NBC evening news, it was reported that the woman was Joan's private ENT and was NOT brought in by Dr. Cohen. However he shouldn't have allowed her to do any procedure on Joan whether she had requested it or not. Of course, I don't know if this is true either.

Esteemed Contributor
Posts: 7,423
Registered: ‎03-10-2010

Re: Joan Rivers re The N Y Times - not speculation

On 9/14/2014 GoodStuff said:
On 9/13/2014 ibb38 said:
On 9/13/2014 GoodStuff said:
On 9/13/2014 Sheesh said:

The treatment of Joan was so shameful it is beyond imagination! I am just sick, sick,, sick at the loss of her. People everywhere are reeling over this. In my small town in Western Massachusetts, people were toasting to her in a restaurant last night, and a woman told me she was at another place the night before and they were toasting her there, as well. I hope Melissa and Cooper really know how much Joan was admired and appreciated and that people are really sad and angry at her premature loss. Joan could have gone another strong 10 years---she could have seen Cooper graduate from college---it's more than a shame, it's outrageous!

Certainly the unexpected passing of this prominent, talented, much-loved woman is sad for her family, friends and fans. However, whether it is "shameful" or "outrageous" depends on the results of the ongoing investigation (the full results of which have not yet been released). Also, it's important to keep some perspective. Joan may have been lively and active, but she was elderly -- in her 80's -- had undergone many elective surgeries and anesthesias, and reportedly had problems with heart arrythmia. Yes, she might have lived another ten active, productive years -- or her sudden passing may have spared her some of the illness, disability, and decline that often come with advancing age. We'll never know.

At the very least, her death is motivating a fresh look at the pros, cons, and possible risks of outpatient surgery centers. All of us await the facts of the investigation into her death and wish peace and healing for her family. What a personality and what a talent. She will be missed.

If anything, her elective surgeries displayed her strong tolerance for anethesia. And is that an attempt at a 'half glass full' analysis? That she was spared illness, disability, etc that often comes with advanced age?? !! Don't take this wrong- but that is simply twisted !! {#emotions_dlg.crying}

Nope......just an honest observation that the above poster's comment that Joan "could have gone on another strong ten years" and seen her descendents finish college might or might not have come true. We never know, do we? I'm currently dealing with the care of my husband's very elderly mother -- with dementia, in a wheelchair, in a nursing home -- and went through the same sad process with my mom earlier. My hope for myself is that I live an active, aware, full life and then pass on suddenly in my sleep before I start to seriously fall apart. Not a bad deal, overall.

I'm going through this with my Dad currently- on hospice and now has stopped dialysis. He has just days left with us. So I know where you're coming from- but my Dad wouldn't trade his final years for anything. He's seen how his kids have flourished - and how his grandchildren have grown. They have such love and admiration for him! They've shared many happy memorable times. My stepmom has dementia as well- each week she's impacted more by the changes with my Dad. But through it all the glass is still truly half full.

Super Contributor
Posts: 990
Registered: ‎10-01-2010

Re: Joan Rivers re The N Y Times - not speculation

On 9/13/2014 ical said:
On 9/13/2014 adelle38 said:

<em> "There have been no accusations that Ms. Rivers’s treatment by Dr. Cohen or anyone else at the clinic caused her death, "</em>

But you cut short the remainder of the sentence...

There have been no accusations that Ms. Rivers’s treatment by Dr. Cohen or anyone else at the clinic caused her death, which is being investigated by the New York State Health Department and the New York City medical examiner.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/13/nyregion/doctor-who-worked-on-joan-rivers-steps-down-from-post-at...

Which is standard procedure whenever a death occurs!

You know it's the people who believe everything they read and thrive on speculation that makes the media the way it is! And just because it's in the "NY Times" doesn't make it true!

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Posts: 39,912
Registered: ‎08-23-2010

Re: Joan Rivers re The N Y Times - not speculation

On 9/13/2014 Sheesh said:

The treatment of Joan was so shameful it is beyond imagination! I am just sick, sick,, sick at the loss of her. People everywhere are reeling over this. In my small town in Western Massachusetts, people were toasting to her in a restaurant last night, and a woman told me she was at another place the night before and they were toasting her there, as well. I hope Melissa and Cooper really know how much Joan was admired and appreciated and that people are really sad and angry at her premature loss. Joan could have gone another strong 10 years---she could have seen Cooper graduate from college---it's more than a shame, it's outrageous!

You would like to THINK that, but no one knows for sure .... she was an elderly woman with a heart condition and more than a dozen major surgeries under her belt. {#emotions_dlg.unsure}

She could have died at home that morning, putting on her makeup!