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Re: Dr. Who Performed Joan's Throat Surgery is Out

I read he was the Dr who did the surgery. I was surprised but maybe she was so high profile he did the surgery.
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Re: Dr. Who Performed Joan's Throat Surgery is Out

On 9/13/2014 ical said:
On 9/13/2014 pitdakota said:
jury ruled in Dr. Cohen's favor and against the plaintiff.

And the that case along with Joan's case really can't be compared.

Then you understand that a lawsuit cannot even get to a trial with jury if it is found to be "frivolous".

A 93-year-old guy vs a powerful stomach doctor...

I understand that a 93 year old underwent the procedure that presented with serious emergency issues discovered during that procedure and a physician performed emergency procedures to try and save the life of that 93 year old. Of course, the md could have just said oh well he is 93 let's just not bother since he is so old. But the md made a decision to try and save this individual which is certainly risky with any 93 year old.

I also understand that I don't know any other specific details of that lawsuit without the actual legal documents. But neither do you.


* Freedom has a taste the protected will never know *
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Re: Dr. Who Performed Joan's Throat Surgery is Out

On 9/13/2014 ical said:On 9/13/2014 pitdakota said:

On 9/13/2014 ical said:

On 9/12/2014 blossompie said:Nobody knows how long Joan would have lived she could have lived to 115 or she could have died at 82 but what we do know is she was healthy when she arrived at the clinic and left out of there on life support. Nobody has a right to perform nothing on nobody unless they have consent. Doctors tend to think they are God and they aren't.

The reason I gave the year 93 vs 81 was to show a living example of a lawsuit that exists for not only the same doctor, but to also give a "living example" to those who say, "well, 81 was a long enough life"--a true situation that, even at 93, one can pursue legal action for a procedure done for which there was no consent (by patient).

In other words, if something wrong was done in Joan's situation, if they (Joan's representative(s)), (or some medical regulatory board), or both, choose legal action, they should.

They should because what happened to Joan may not have been known, perhaps, IF she did not have the fame (which gives voice) to the problem. Would an average Jane or Joe have noticed or known or had the "team" to check out why? Has this happened to Jane or Joe and this is just the way it has been? No one, truly, no one can say with 100% certainty that what happened to Joan may not have happened to someone else and it was swept under as "natural causes" or "problem with age" or "anesthesia reaction" or "it was their time" (whatever that means!).

Joan had the reputation for saying it, saying it loudly, saying it to be heard.

Joan, if she had lived, what would she have said about what happened?

A public, tear it apart, out-in-the-open lawsuit will pull the covers off those in the medical community who think they are the owners of the bodies for whom they "care".

One important detail about that lawsuit involving Dr. Cohen is that the jury ruled in Dr. Cohen's favor and against the plaintiff.

And the that case along with Joan's case really can't be compared.

Then you understand that a lawsuit cannot even get to a trial with jury if it is found to be "frivolous".

A 93-year-old guy vs a powerful stomach doctor...

Edited to add:

I forgot to mention, the 93-year-old who sued due to having a procedure done without his consent, was, himself, a doctor. He never lost his job, but was concerned the unapproved procedure could have jeopardized his life (allegedly).

That's not true. If the malpractice suit had any merit, they would have either settled before it came to trial or the jury would have found in favor of the plaintiff. I have no idea what happened in Joan's case and neither does any other member of the public. This kind of rush to judgment helps no one.

It's always a victory for me when I remember why I entered a room.
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Re: Dr. Who Performed Joan's Throat Surgery is Out

On 9/13/2014 adelle38 said:
On 9/13/2014 ical said:On 9/13/2014 pitdakota said:

Then you understand that a lawsuit cannot even get to a trial with jury if it is found to be "frivolous".

A 93-year-old guy vs a powerful stomach doctor...

Edited to add:

I forgot to mention, the 93-year-old who sued due to having a procedure done without his consent, was, himself, a doctor. He never lost his job, but was concerned the unapproved procedure could have jeopardized his life (allegedly).

That's not true. If the malpractice suit had any merit, they would have either settled before it came to trial or the jury would have found in favor of the plaintiff. I have no idea what happened in Joan's case and neither does any other member of the public. This kind of rush to judgment helps no one.

Absolutely adelle 38. A number of medical malpractice suits are settled out of court. And don't get me started on frivolous law suits. lol They exist in our system every day.

I find it quite disingenuous that people want to demonize physicians across the board without really knowing the facts. Especially when they have no actual experience in the field.

I wonder if any of them have ever actually witnessed a surgeon in surgery that discovers an unexpected finding or a situation that is much worse than anticipated that struggles with the right decision to make? I have seen surgeons back away from the OR table to pace the Operating Room weighing the pros and cons about the next step to take. They are so serious and the patient's best outcome is their first concern. And in those situations, the answer isn't always so clear.

Of course, I have also seen physicians that are along the lines of quacks. I don't know anything about Dr. Cohen and I certainly don't know the specifics of what happened to Joan. But I have been around long enough to know that it will depend on the facts of this case before I make any decisions about how I might feel about any of the mds or what happened to Joan.


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Re: Dr. Who Performed Joan's Throat Surgery is Out

On 9/13/2014 pitdakota said:
On 9/13/2014 adelle38 said:
On 9/13/2014 ical said:On 9/13/2014 pitdakota said:

Then you understand that a lawsuit cannot even get to a trial with jury if it is found to be "frivolous".

A 93-year-old guy vs a powerful stomach doctor...

Edited to add:

I forgot to mention, the 93-year-old who sued due to having a procedure done without his consent, was, himself, a doctor. He never lost his job, but was concerned the unapproved procedure could have jeopardized his life (allegedly).

That's not true. If the malpractice suit had any merit, they would have either settled before it came to trial or the jury would have found in favor of the plaintiff. I have no idea what happened in Joan's case and neither does any other member of the public. This kind of rush to judgment helps no one.

Absolutely adelle 38. A number of medical malpractice suits are settled out of court. And don't get me started on frivolous law suits. lol They exist in our system every day.

I find it quite disingenuous that people want to demonize physicians across the board without really knowing the facts. Especially when they have no actual experience in the field.

I wonder if any of them have ever actually witnessed a surgeon in surgery that discovers an unexpected finding or a situation that is much worse than anticipated that struggles with the right decision to make? I have seen surgeons back away from the OR table to pace the Operating Room weighing the pros and cons about the next step to take. They are so serious and the patient's best outcome is their first concern. And in those situations, the answer isn't always so clear.

Of course, I have also seen physicians that are along the lines of quacks. I don't know anything about Dr. Cohen and I certainly don't know the specifics of what happened to Joan. But I have been around long enough to know that it will depend on the facts of this case before I make any decisions about how I might feel about any of the mds or what happened to Joan.

"frivolous"

As mentioned, I stated I read the information I provided and used my own words to explain my opinion. For you to use the word "demonize" in the accusatory manner as you did (to poster(s), is in fact, hurtful to person(s). Is this frivolous, if brought to a suit?

It is important for users of any forum to realize that comments alone are just that-- "comments"-- and "comments" can be criticized.

Also copyrighted material should not be boldly posted, with photos. Ad money is determined, in most cases, based on "hits" per url for specific articles/photos on line. To copy all the text or most of it, or a photo, takes traffic from the url that has the ad attached to it.

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Re: Dr. Who Performed Joan's Throat Surgery is Out

On 9/12/2014 blossompie said:
On 9/12/2014 GoodStuff said:
On 9/12/2014 shoppergrl said:

She may have signed consent forms for one kind of procedure but if the doctor veered off into another procedure then that's another story. But the doctor was fired by the Board. That means there is something very wrong.

I said, "unless her doctors were stupid beyond stupid." And most doctors aren't.

Doctors are human not God and they make bad choices like anybody else. What you seem to be missing is if Joan had a medical issue that stopped her heart then nobody would be asked to "Step Down" unless somebody allegedly did something unethical.

Worked for doctors for years and am well aware that they're human and not mistake-proof. Of course mistakes can be made with J. Rivers or any other patient. What I was referring to was that the release forms patients sign before procedures almost always are written to cover decisions and eventualities that might come up during the procedure while the patient is under anesthesia. For example, when you sign a release for a colonoscopy, it usually contains language that clears the doctor to remove any polyps or biopsy any lesions that may be found during the exam. It would be majorly stupid for a doctor to perform a procedure not covered by the release the patient signed -- especially someone as prominent, as elderly, and with the medical history of Joan Rivers.

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Re: Dr. Who Performed Joan's Throat Surgery is Out

On 9/13/2014 GoodStuff said:
On 9/12/2014 blossompie said:
On 9/12/2014 GoodStuff said:
On 9/12/2014 shoppergrl said:

She may have signed consent forms for one kind of procedure but if the doctor veered off into another procedure then that's another story. But the doctor was fired by the Board. That means there is something very wrong.

I said, "unless her doctors were stupid beyond stupid." And most doctors aren't.

Doctors are human not God and they make bad choices like anybody else. What you seem to be missing is if Joan had a medical issue that stopped her heart then nobody would be asked to "Step Down" unless somebody allegedly did something unethical.

Worked for doctors for years and am well aware that they're human and not mistake-proof. Of course mistakes can be made with J. Rivers or any other patient. What I was referring to was that the release forms patients sign before procedures almost always are written to cover decisions and eventualities that might come up during the procedure while the patient is under anesthesia. For example, when you sign a release for a colonoscopy, it usually contains language that clears the doctor to remove any polyps or biopsy any lesions that may be found during the exam. It would be majorly stupid for a doctor to perform a procedure not covered by the release the patient signed -- especially someone as prominent, as elderly, and with the medical history of Joan Rivers.

What medical history did Joan have? I understand her voice was strained from years of stand up and she probably had a polyp but she had more energy than most and that's what caught her family,friends and fans off guard. I also saw the 1980s interview about her heart but it didn't sound like it was a major concern but I don't know. CNN has the timeline from that day at the clinic and it was an entire 10 minutes before she got to the hospital
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Re: Dr. Who Performed Joan's Throat Surgery is Out

On 9/12/2014 blossompie said: Yep. CNN said the investigation is ongoing and it looks as though people may end up in trouble. Now there are reports the doctor was Joan's personal doctor but regardless it seems as though joan didn't consent to any surgery

I thought she was having some type of surgery to begin with... If not, what was she doing there??

KatieB