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Valued Contributor
Posts: 952
Registered: ‎03-09-2010

Re: Dr. Who Performed Joan's Throat Surgery is Out

On 9/12/2014 Ms X said:
On 9/12/2014 milly said:
On 9/12/2014 Scooby Doo said:

From what I've read, Joan traveled with her own doctor.

Her Dr at the clinic was an ENT Dr. I doubt she traveled with him. There is something very strange about having an ENT Dr that wasn't with the clinic in while she had surgery.

Milly: It's not unusual for someone having surgery or a diagnostic procedure to have doctors from two specialties performing procedures or looking for various conditions. This cuts down on cost and the need for anesthesia. However, if one doctor could not legally perform a procedure there, they've got trouble even if that didn't have anything to do with Joan's death. The articles say no wrongdoing has been claimed so far regarding these doctors, so time will tell. It would be sad if this doctor who's been fired was an excellent doctor. We still don't know so many things about what happened and why.

Thanks for the information. I agree, we really don't know what happened in there.

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Re: Dr. Who Performed Joan's Throat Surgery is Out

On 9/12/2014 Perkup said:

And again and again the rumors. And some words from our local experts!

I for one am not going to open any more Joan Rivers posts. I hope some of you will join me. Enough is more than enough!!!

Well, I'm going to keep reading. As a fan of hers I am curious as to what really happened. I appreciate people sharing information because I don't have access to or read everything being put out, so I appreciate getting briefings on what people read.

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Re: Dr. Who Performed Joan's Throat Surgery is Out

On 9/12/2014 Isabella4ever said:

Thread on another forum

http://www.city-data.com/forum/current-events/2195837-joan-rivers-has-died.html

has many comments from an experienced anesthesiologist. Bottom line, with Joan's age and heart issues, she should not have had ANY sedation/anesthesia outside a hospital setting.

Per this doc, she should NEVER have been outside hospital:

We use a standard classification system called the ASA (American Society of Anesthesiologist) system, to determine how healthy or sick a patient is for surgery. It classifies patients into 1 of 6 categories. ASA1,2,3,4,5, or 6.

Most surgery centers will only take the healthiest patients (ASA1 or ASA2). If they are equally equipped as a hospital, why is that? Shouldn't they accept the sicker (ASA3 or ASA4) patients if they are just as good as a hospital?

BTW, an 81 year old with a cardiac history is at least an ASA3.

which means hospital only. Also, per him, Dr. Cohen - per papers written: "That same gastroenterologist wrote an article back in 2007 about how gastroenterologists were qualified to give patients their own anesthesia for endoscopies without an anesthesiologist present."

Yes, Yorkville had 4 board-certified anesthesiologists on staff. Big Q - was one of them present? Spokeswoman for clinic has not addressed that issue, specifically.

All that said - yes, Joan was 81. Anything could have happened. She should have been in hospital with a very experienced board-certified anesthesiologist present at all times. Period.

My father was a doctor. Agree with everything you said. I have not and will not have any

procedure w/ any kind of anesthesia outside of a hospital. I know it is common, not for me.

I had a colonoscopy done in a hospital. That said, if it is discovered Joan's passing was due

to error and not age/her condition related how tragic.

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Re: Dr. Who Performed Joan's Throat Surgery is Out

On 9/12/2014 Arley said:

I first want to say I liked Joan Rivers but as someone who has had many endoscopies (due to a transplant) you have to SIGN many release forms before they touch you. If Joan were uncomfortable with the clinic she had the money to have it performed at a hospital. I had no choice due to my insurance. The reason the healthcare costs what it does is because right away people want to sue. She lived 81 wonderful years. 78 is the average life span. Who knows if she was walking on the street she could have had a heart attack. I am not cold its reality. Look at the obituaries at how many people drop dead. An 18 year old kid here in NJ was playing football and dropped. that is sad!!! Fact -- she signed the papers. NO doctor will do the procedure without a signature!!!

Arley

True! You said it better than I ever could have, Arley

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Re: Dr. Who Performed Joan's Throat Surgery is Out

On 9/12/2014 champagnepoodle said:
On 9/12/2014 shoppergrl said:

She may have signed consent forms for one kind of procedure but if the doctor veered off into another procedure then that's another story. But the doctor was fired by the Board. That means there is something very wrong.

He was not fired by a long shot. Dr Cohen is head professor at Mt Sinai

Do you know Dr Cohen? You seem to very convinced Joan died from old age and a heart attack and it had nothing to do with the doctor or the clinic? Why is that?
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Re: Dr. Who Performed Joan's Throat Surgery is Out

This is my take on it, and I am basing this on what I read in various reports, but I like to use my words because you cannot take large excerpts from publications due to copyright laws which I follow.

It appears that Dr. Cohen (let's call him the "stomach" doctor) is no longer at Mt. Sinai, is no longer at either of the two clinics he runs for "stomach" related issues. Calls were made to all, no longer there.

There was another doctor who looked at Joan's voice box BEFORE Cohen (stomach guy) took the endoscope and looked for acid reflux issues due to digestion (stomach guy does this). BEFORE he did it, he allowed another doctor (female it appears) to look at her voice box and then AFTER he also allowed her to look.

If you want links, search for them, but it appears Cohen has had problems before (in other posts I gave links).

Cohen rattled the medical community in 2012 (I'm going by memory, but search for exact year, I think it was 2012). Why did he rattle them? Because he proposed that NO ANESTHESIOLOGIST should be required for endoscopic procedures.

Also, Joan was only 81, just turned 81--vibrant, jump in her step, full of life. Menopause does cause thumping strange feeling in hearts of women (well of course), due to hormonal changes. Joan called her heart thumping lady related problems--and she did so at a time of those presumed changes (hormonal). So her thumping heart should not be something to just assume, "well, she had a "bad heart" and she was due to die" (as I have read).

Being 81 means if she had lived to 93, she'd have 12 years!

Why 93? Well a doctor who was having problems went to see the stomach guy (allegedly this is a lawsuit which was filed so I have to say allegedly)--anyway, this 93 year old man had stomach issues, saw the stomach guy and guess what? When he woke up a procedure was done to the 93-year-old guy without (without!) consent.

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Re: Dr. Who Performed Joan's Throat Surgery is Out

Well, this is the view of many anesthesiologists:

"[Joan's death] is a hot topic among anesthesiologists because it is incomprehensible to people in my field that someone would die this way because this is every day stuff that we deal with easily and successfully over and over again.

"It's not like she had a massive heart attack out of nowhere. It's not like she had a severe anaphylactic reaction. These are things that, in spite of your best efforts, still go south sometimes.

"Laryngospasm just seems so benign to most of us. We usually see it coming before it actually happens, and then we deal with it quickly."

[emphasis added]












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Re: Dr. Who Performed Joan's Throat Surgery is Out

On 9/12/2014 ical said:

This is my take on it, and I am basing this on what I read in various reports, but I like to use my words because you cannot take large excerpts from publications due to copyright laws which I follow.

It appears that Dr. Cohen (let's call him the "stomach" doctor) is no longer at Mt. Sinai, is no longer at either of the two clinics he runs for "stomach" related issues. Calls were made to all, no longer there.

There was another doctor who looked at Joan's voice box BEFORE Cohen (stomach guy) took the endoscope and looked for acid reflux issues due to digestion (stomach guy does this). BEFORE he did it, he allowed another doctor (female it appears) to look at her voice box and then AFTER he also allowed her to look.

If you want links, search for them, but it appears Cohen has had problems before (in other posts I gave links).

Cohen rattled the medical community in 2012 (I'm going by memory, but search for exact year, I think it was 2012). Why did he rattle them? Because he proposed that NO ANESTHESIOLOGIST should be required for endoscopic procedures.

Also, Joan was only 81, just turned 81--vibrant, jump in her step, full of life. Menopause does cause thumping strange feeling in hearts of women (well of course), due to hormonal changes. Joan called her heart thumping lady related problems--and she did so at a time of those presumed changes (hormonal). So her thumping heart should not be something to just assume, "well, she had a "bad heart" and she was due to die" (as I have read).

Being 81 means if she had lived to 93, she'd have 12 years!

Why 93? Well a doctor who was having problems went to see the stomach guy (allegedly this is a lawsuit which was filed so I have to say allegedly)--anyway, this 93 year old man had stomach issues, saw the stomach guy and guess what? When he woke up a procedure was done to the 93-year-old guy without (without!) consent.

Nobody knows how long Joan would have lived she could have lived to 115 or she could have died at 82 but what we do know is she was healthy when she arrived at the clinic and left out of there on life support. Nobody has a right to perform nothing on nobody unless they have consent. Doctors tend to think they are God and they aren't.
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Re: Dr. Who Performed Joan's Throat Surgery is Out

Recommendations at main professional websites for associations of endoscopists and anesthesiologists had age 70 as the cutoff age wherein endoscopies of the throat become high risk and should be done in a hospital, not out patient clinic.

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Re: Dr. Who Performed Joan's Throat Surgery is Out

On 9/12/2014 Mindy D said:

Recommendations at main professional websites for associations of endoscopists and anesthesiologists had age 70 as the cutoff age wherein endoscopies of the throat become high risk and should be done in a hospital, not out patient clinic.

That's it in a nutshell.