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Esteemed Contributor
Posts: 5,616
Registered: ‎10-01-2014

Re: "The Secret Shame of Middle Class Americans"

So, what is going to happen to all of these people who have nothing and need to move into an assisted living community or nursing home as they age? Does the government pay for this through Medicaid? I can see where this could bankrupt a government. 

No act of kindness, no matter how small, is ever wasted. - Aesop
Trusted Contributor
Posts: 1,054
Registered: ‎02-17-2016

Re: "The Secret Shame of Middle Class Americans"


@ZoetheCat wrote:

@Noel7 wrote:

Billionaires keep getting richer while the middle class is disappearing.

 

THAT is what is wrong, especially since a high percent of our military families are on food stamps .

 

FOR SHAME.  And yet, so many believe those on food stamps don't deserve it.


I completely agree with this.  Obviously, there is some misuse of government programs, including food stamps, but I firmly believe that such cases are the minority not the rule.  I find it absolutely abhorent when I see people shaming those who use food stamps.  When I was in high school many, many years ago, I worked as a grocery store cashier.  The way some people treated our customers who used food stamps was embarassing.  None of us knows what someone else is dealing with and we have no right to judge.

 

Having said that, I also agree that there are many people in this country who do feel "entitled" so to speak.  Every time I watch a show like "House Hunters" I am amazed at what some of these people expect, especially in a first house.  Since many of them are young, it does seem like there is no sense of "going without" in order to gradually work up to the "forever" home.  I remember that as a young married couple, my husband and I saved every penny, never went out to dinner or traveled so that we could buy our first home.  But then again, we had advantages that a lot of young people don't have now.  For one thing, we could pay for college without taking out huge loans.  It wasn't easy, but it could be done.  That is often not so today.

 

I also think we sometimes blame young people too much.  I know plenty of older people (even older than me, and I'm 55) who have saved very little to nothing.  I work in a law office and nearly all of the attorneys (most of them my age or older) that work there are practically broke.  It's not always just the younger set who are unprepared for a financial setback.


There's a MAJOR misuse of food stamps.

 

As far as couples spending money on a home, if they can AFFORD it, they don't have to work up to a "forever home" or sacrifice going out to dinner, etc.  It has NOTHING to do with entitlement.

Honored Contributor
Posts: 10,820
Registered: ‎03-10-2010

Re: "The Secret Shame of Middle Class Americans"

[ Edited ]

Food stamps are not that easy to get.  They have one jumping through hoops with paperwork you cannot imagine.  I had a food program from 1995 to 2006, that supplied groceries  to those caught "inbetween".  Those who had to debate PGE and food, who had to take their kids miles to food kitchens to feed them a few times a week to make ends meet.  I supplied those suffering from illness, medical bills and job loss. 

 

If you loose a job it takes months to get foods stamps if you qualify.  You have to come up with birth certificates, rent recepts, your utility bills, pay check stubs.  You fill out a pile of paperwork, and have to wait for hours for an appt, and to be seen.  Not to mention the humiliation of people knowing your business, especially if you live in a small town.

 

My opinion is this... if you can go through all this to get food stamps, you deserve them.  Not everyone will go though this, if they are going through a few bad months!!  Most people are so humiliated and ashamed to ask for help.  I say give it to them if they ask.  They need it.  Yes, there are those that abuse the system and have NO pride. They are few compared to those who need a little help They are usually the ones that cry the loudest, and complain at every turn.  But if there are kids involved they can't help it if their parents are jerks

 

Honored Contributor
Posts: 18,504
Registered: ‎05-23-2010

Re: "The Secret Shame of Middle Class Americans"


@MaggieMack wrote:

So, what is going to happen to all of these people who have nothing and need to move into an assisted living community or nursing home as they age? Does the government pay for this through Medicaid? I can see where this could bankrupt a government. 


 

 

Not to worry. Those with no visitors to look out for them, who can no longer speak up for themselves, will just...die in the nursing homes, in droves, of infections, bed sores, choking, etc.  There will just be more of them in future - and we may well be among their population. It doesn't always happen to 'other people.'

Life without Mexican food is no life at all
Honored Contributor
Posts: 20,019
Registered: ‎08-08-2010

Re: "The Secret Shame of Middle Class Americans"


@Noel7 wrote:

Billionaires keep getting richer while the middle class is disappearing.

 

THAT is what is wrong, especially since a high percent of our military families are on food stamps .

 

FOR SHAME.  And yet, so many believe those on food stamps don't deserve it.


 

I have to point out that one of the many ways the 'rich get richer' is that those less rich, support them. Voluntarily.

 

Take professional sports, for instance. The  players, the owners get rich because people continue to pay increasingly ridiculous prices for the tickets, the merchandise etc. No one is forced to buy this type of product, it isn't a necessity of life, but people (some who really shouldn't afford it) continue to pay. Those middle class people (and below) could easily say no to this and any number of other 'rich' people offering goods and services that aren't essential to life. But they don't. They create the wealth for these wealthy, it isn't robbed from them.

 

And along the way, those rich folks create huge businesses and many many jobs. Many of them give back to charity and the community, in big ways that serve a lot of people. Many of them develop new technologies and products that revolutionize our existence (think Henry Ford, or any of the tech biggies) What is so wrong with that?

 

And our military families on food stamps is a tragedy. But it isn't the fault of the rich. It is the fault of the government who doesn't allocate what military families deserve, and the people who elect and retain that government and it's representatives, without demanding change.

 

And there are many  on food stamps who don't deserve it. 

Honored Contributor
Posts: 12,415
Registered: ‎03-10-2010

Re: "The Secret Shame of Middle Class Americans"

.....all I can say is it is a very humbling time for many.  I live in SoCal and we bought our house at the height of the "bubble".  Then the bubble burst...people lost their houses left and right...many of whom I talked to had borrowed from parents and banks...to get their over inflated homes only to have lost everything....buy, buy.

, buy!  We are fortunate to have kept our home, but do not go on vacation and do extravagant outings, dinners, etc.  we live four miles from the ocean and two hours from skiing.  I am teaching my son the value......"value" of a dollar....even though his friends are getting this and that, and going here and there......we are saving for our future...and his future.  I am trying to instill middle class values in a decadent time.

Where have you gone, Joe DiMaggio? A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.... ~ S & G
Honored Contributor
Posts: 20,019
Registered: ‎08-08-2010

Re: "The Secret Shame of Middle Class Americans"


@Moonchilde wrote:

@shoekitty wrote:

Part of the problem is when the tech age burst on the scene millions of jobs were eliminated or downsized.  My husband for one had a company that kept on yop of things.  He was lucky.  However, they got rid of the older people, and worked with those like my husband who were a bit younger at the time. He is an engineer.  Believe me there is not one engineer who has a compass and slide ruler anymore, Who has a draft table?  They don't use the same tools, or supplies.  (Think of the workers that used to make those products).  Gone.   he had to be retrained to design on computer., then they learned a different method.  Think of the people in banks who sorted our cashed  checks put them in the drawer, and mailed them to you end of the month? Many were of age to retire when many jobs were no longer needed.  When we mail our bills in, there is no human to sort, open put them to our acct, deposit them. Think of the operators who answered "may I help you?, and found a phone number, address for you...for FREE.

 

What I am saying is the middle class was put out of many jobs by machines, computers, or a more efficent way to get work done with the least human time.  Shoot there was time not too long ago humans pasted labels to beer bottles in the factory. 

I think in several years even teachers will be replaced in many classes by pod casts, by students using ipads. It is sad, but jobs of the future are hard to predict.  I am 68, and never 35 years ago could I dream of this world.  Shoot I remember a world where you had to see a movie in the theaters, then wait for 5 years before it was shown on TV in black and white. No VHS, CD, DVD for sure!


 

 

But heck, @shoekitty, somehow, some way, it's all our fault, really. We just should have known - that it would happen, what the future cost of living would be, and most important of all - we should have calculated things so that no matter what happened, we would all have sufficient $$ (whatever unknown figure that might be) to take care of ourselves until we die, without government help. If we can't do that, obviously we're worthless, selfish, lazy spendthrifts - always have been, always will be I guess ;-(

 

😜😏😒😖


In all fairness, @Moonchilde, the OP was mostly about people having no emergency fund.

 

It is quite understandable how so many people can't afford to retire or retire completely. Living after the working years is longer and more expensive than ever, and those maybe millions it will take (with healthcare especially) for a long life is beyond  most people's ability, and I get that.

 

But why more of the population doesn't even have $400 for an emergency is really inexcusable. Yes, that money could easily be eaten up in an emergency, and take awhile to rebuild, and sometimes the 'emergency' fund is being tapped on a regular basis, but to just plain have so many people so unprepared has some basis in lack of self control and planning. Not for everyone, but for a great many.

Super Contributor
Posts: 451
Registered: ‎11-30-2014

Re: "The Secret Shame of Middle Class Americans"


@KALLIE wrote:

@ZoetheCat wrote:

@Noel7 wrote:

Billionaires keep getting richer while the middle class is disappearing.

 

THAT is what is wrong, especially since a high percent of our military families are on food stamps .

 

FOR SHAME.  And yet, so many believe those on food stamps don't deserve it.


I completely agree with this.  Obviously, there is some misuse of government programs, including food stamps, but I firmly believe that such cases are the minority not the rule.  I find it absolutely abhorent when I see people shaming those who use food stamps.  When I was in high school many, many years ago, I worked as a grocery store cashier.  The way some people treated our customers who used food stamps was embarassing.  None of us knows what someone else is dealing with and we have no right to judge.

 

Having said that, I also agree that there are many people in this country who do feel "entitled" so to speak.  Every time I watch a show like "House Hunters" I am amazed at what some of these people expect, especially in a first house.  Since many of them are young, it does seem like there is no sense of "going without" in order to gradually work up to the "forever" home.  I remember that as a young married couple, my husband and I saved every penny, never went out to dinner or traveled so that we could buy our first home.  But then again, we had advantages that a lot of young people don't have now.  For one thing, we could pay for college without taking out huge loans.  It wasn't easy, but it could be done.  That is often not so today.

 

I also think we sometimes blame young people too much.  I know plenty of older people (even older than me, and I'm 55) who have saved very little to nothing.  I work in a law office and nearly all of the attorneys (most of them my age or older) that work there are practically broke.  It's not always just the younger set who are unprepared for a financial setback.


There's a MAJOR misuse of food stamps.

 

As far as couples spending money on a home, if they can AFFORD it, they don't have to work up to a "forever home" or sacrifice going out to dinner, etc.  It has NOTHING to do with entitlement.


I would be the first to agree that if one can afford it, they should buy whatever home they want.  But in the context of this particular thread, I think it's fair to say that a good number of couples who buy the "forever" house right out of the gate are probably not aggressively saving for retirement.  They are also likely to be the people who can't come up with $400 to pay a car repair bill or $2000 to pay an unexpected medical bill.  Obviously, these are generalizations and don't apply to everyone.  But my own experience, among the people that I know, is that the people who live below their means are the ones who build emergency funds and retirement accounts. 

 

Let me also add that a great many people simply don't have the ability to save because all of their money is going for basic living expenses.  I would never want to suggest that everyone can have a healthy 401K.  The number of people in this country who are working full time, or maybe even a couple of jobs, and are still barely making ends meet is heartbreaking. 

 

As for the misuse of food stamps, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Respected Contributor
Posts: 4,782
Registered: ‎03-09-2010

Re: "The Secret Shame of Middle Class Americans"

[ Edited ]

@Mominohio wrote:

@Noel7 wrote:

Billionaires keep getting richer while the middle class is disappearing.

 

THAT is what is wrong, especially since a high percent of our military families are on food stamps .

 

FOR SHAME.  And yet, so many believe those on food stamps don't deserve it.


 

I have to point out that one of the many ways the 'rich get richer' is that those less rich, support them. Voluntarily.

 

Take professional sports, for instance. The  players, the owners get rich because people continue to pay increasingly ridiculous prices for the tickets, the merchandise etc. No one is forced to buy this type of product, it isn't a necessity of life, but people (some who really shouldn't afford it) continue to pay. Those middle class people (and below) could easily say no to this and any number of other 'rich' people offering goods and services that aren't essential to life. But they don't. They create the wealth for these wealthy, it isn't robbed from them.

 

And along the way, those rich folks create huge businesses and many many jobs. Many of them give back to charity and the community, in big ways that serve a lot of people. Many of them develop new technologies and products that revolutionize our existence (think Henry Ford, or any of the tech biggies) What is so wrong with that?

 

And our military families on food stamps is a tragedy. But it isn't the fault of the rich. It is the fault of the government who doesn't allocate what military families deserve, and the people who elect and retain that government and it's representatives, without demanding change.

 

And there are many  on food stamps who don't deserve it. 


If I may point out, most of the mega wealthy are not common household names.  You mentioned professional sports teams/players and owners.  At least the players "earn" their keep or they're gone.  Owners often buy clubs as a tax write off or other nepharious reasons.  The real money is made on Wall Street and when a company cuts 1,000 employees to make investors happy, that's not CREATING jobs.  Neither is hiding one's money in off-shore banks so the government cannot tax them.

 

As for the super wealthy creating jobs, sorry, I haven't seen much of that in the last 25 years.  Even if they do start a company here, within five years, they've moved to China, Mexico or some other country that supplies cheap labor and inferior products. And we sit here in a country that has a disgraceful infrastructure crumbling around us and cities where not even the water is safe to drink.

 

As for food stamps, I refuse to sit in judgment of people that may really be hungry.  

~The only difference between this place and the Titanic is that the Titanic had a band.~
Honored Contributor
Posts: 30,238
Registered: ‎03-12-2010

Re: "The Secret Shame of Middle Class Americans"

@Noel7 I always find it interesting when people feel the need to copy another person's entire text.  

 

I don't feel the need to 'argue' with you about any of what I said.  I will say, though, that the term 'middle class' is obsolete (especially since you said it is based on earnings).  Think about it.  What someone makes says nothing about how in debt they are (which would....technically, take them out of what's called 'middle class'.  I don't care for that term anyway because to me it brings up an image of people who have 2 cars, a house and so on.

 

I think there are some awesome people who (based on earnings, but not in debt) yet would not be considered 'middle class'.

 

OK, I've somewhat responded to your post.  Everyone has his or her ideas on this.  I like to read everyone's comments as I think there are some very intelligent people here.  These are people to whom we can each learn from (I know I can and have).

 

It can be a good discussion as long as everyone stays civil and keeps in mind each is entitled to his or her opinion, even......no, especially if you or I don't agree with it.  For it is only by listening to those who disagree that we can learn and perhaps see both sides to something.