"The Secret Shame of Middle Class Americans" - Page 3

Annabellethecat66 · ‎03-12-2010

I agree with everything everyone said. I don't think it's any single thing, I think it's a combination of many things, just like not one size fits all.

I once heard someone say in this country being poor means not have the latest cell phone (but having a good cell phone), not having a huge TV (but having a big color HD TV), not having the latest year car (but close to it) and so on.

I totally agree with that. Sure there are people who don't have much food to eat (some having no food). When I was young and lived with my single sister and her 4 children (divorced) we really were poor, but we still had TV and a house phone (before cell phones, cable, etc) the house phone and place to live were if the phone wasn't cut off (non-payment) and we were kicked out of the apartment (not paying, no money).

As this country has aged (the country, not the people, I'll talk about them later), as stated above, I believe being poor is different from what it was during the depression or even the 50's.

When you grow up and don't have food sometimes, it does something to your head and you either become a spend thrift (using credit cards, usually) or you learn to save and say you'll never be like that again.

I've found that many of the Millinea (I told my Milinea daughter I wouldn't use that word, I hope she'll forgive me) want everything immediately. They don't want to wait. They want it now. It's so obvious, it's silly. The slightly older generation is slightly better. The younger generation is worse than the two of them.

I think us Boomers are to blame for these generations who want things immediately. We want them to have what we didn't have and if we have the money, we dole it out, if we don't have the money, we borrow it.

I've also read that the Boomer Generation (which many of us here belong to (I'm 70 this year)) have more money than any generation before us and definitely will have more than any generation after us.

I think our previous generation did a pretty good job raising most us old(er) 'kids'. They fought in war(s) and knew what it was like to have to do without. Again, we didn't want our children to suffer (I guess we wanted things when we were young and our parents said, "Good. Go work for it".

I'm tired of hearing about college being free. What a joke! For most people it already is free. Talk to people who have finished college and they are drowning in college bills but they don't do a lot to pay them (that new car, etc is calling their name).

The Boomer generation is the one responsible for making plastic surgery so popular (we didn't like aging), Harley Davidson stock shot up like crazy when we hit our 60's, and on and on. It wasn't so bad because many of us are doing OK. Now you know I'm talking about people in their late 60's and 70's and so on.

Could you have ever imagined a company like QVC or HSN would be doing as well as they are if that middle generation wasn't I want it now? No way.

Anyway, I'll go sit down and shut up. I get grief for bla blaing on her anyway (come on....bring it on).

I haven't said anything that all of you have said. My late husband dealt in the stock market and knew some pretty influential people. It was surprising how many of them (he died in the early 2000's) told him back then that they had money set aside for WHEN the banking institutions collapse. Many people (well, that's an exaggeration) a surprising number of people think all HELL is going to hit, it's a matter of when, not IF.

Just realizing things aren't all rosey is good. Unfortunately my guess is most of the people clicking on here and 'talking' about all of this are people (most of them) over 50 and probably more that are 60 and 70. I don't know about you guys but I get tired of saying "Wake up". Stop spending money you don't have".

I think the government wants people 'beholding' to them. Because I was self-employed I HAD to get Medicare. I didn't want it. I wanted to pay for my own insurance. I had the money. But I was told, no, I had to use the US Government.

I think if you have the money, you should have to get your own insurance. My brother (due to illness) got Social Security. he had a job as a forklift operator at Walmart. The government made him quit the job because they said he was making too much money. He wanted to be able to take his girlfriend to the movies and dinner with the extra money.

People say, "I paid in to it I should get it". Well the population is living much longer these days. The amount of money most people get is way more than what they paid into it when you average it out. This is all some people have.

I think it would be nice where if you didn't need the money you could decide where you wanted your share to go. I know people I see at the Drs offices, etc who could use it. They were told a long time ago they could live on it when they got old. WHAT A JOKE. It's called massive inflation.

Phew! Now I'm wound up. What does middle class mean anyway? It's an over-used word that has no meaning anymore because there is no middle class if you investigate the amount of money middle class has.

Noel7 · ‎03-09-2010

Billionaires keep getting richer while the middle class is disappearing.

THAT is what is wrong, especially since a high percent of our military families are on food stamps .

FOR SHAME. And yet, so many believe those on food stamps don't deserve it.

Noel7 · ‎03-09-2010

@Annabellethecat66 wrote:
I agree with everything everyone said. I don't think it's any single thing, I think it's a combination of many things, just like not one size fits all.

I once heard someone say in this country being poor means not have the latest cell phone (but having a good cell phone), not having a huge TV (but having a big color HD TV), not having the latest year car (but close to it) and so on.

I totally agree with that. Sure there are people who don't have much food to eat (some having no food). When I was young and lived with my single sister and her 4 children (divorced) we really were poor, but we still had TV and a house phone (before cell phones, cable, etc) the house phone and place to live were if the phone wasn't cut off (non-payment) and we were kicked out of the apartment (not paying, no money).

As this country has aged (the country, not the people, I'll talk about them later), as stated above, I believe being poor is different from what it was during the depression or even the 50's.

When you grow up and don't have food sometimes, it does something to your head and you either become a spend thrift (using credit cards, usually) or you learn to save and say you'll never be like that again.

I've found that many of the Millinea (I told my Milinea daughter I wouldn't use that word, I hope she'll forgive me) want everything immediately. They don't want to wait. They want it now. It's so obvious, it's silly. The slightly older generation is slightly better. The younger generation is worse than the two of them.

I think us Boomers are to blame for these generations who want things immediately. We want them to have what we didn't have and if we have the money, we dole it out, if we don't have the money, we borrow it.

I've also read that the Boomer Generation (which many of us here belong to (I'm 70 this year)) have more money than any generation before us and definitely will have more than any generation after us.

I think our previous generation did a pretty good job raising most us old(er) 'kids'. They fought in war(s) and knew what it was like to have to do without. Again, we didn't want our children to suffer (I guess we wanted things when we were young and our parents said, "Good. Go work for it".

I'm tired of hearing about college being free. What a joke! For most people it already is free. Talk to people who have finished college and they are drowning in college bills but they don't do a lot to pay them (that new car, etc is calling their name).

The Boomer generation is the one responsible for making plastic surgery so popular (we didn't like aging), Harley Davidson stock shot up like crazy when we hit our 60's, and on and on. It wasn't so bad because many of us are doing OK. Now you know I'm talking about people in their late 60's and 70's and so on.

Could you have ever imagined a company like QVC or HSN would be doing as well as they are if that middle generation wasn't I want it now? No way.

Anyway, I'll go sit down and shut up. I get grief for bla blaing on her anyway (come on....bring it on).

I haven't said anything that all of you have said. My late husband dealt in the stock market and knew some pretty influential people. It was surprising how many of them (he died in the early 2000's) told him back then that they had money set aside for WHEN the banking institutions collapse. Many people (well, that's an exaggeration) a surprising number of people think all HELL is going to hit, it's a matter of when, not IF.

Just realizing things aren't all rosey is good. Unfortunately my guess is most of the people clicking on here and 'talking' about all of this are people (most of them) over 50 and probably more that are 60 and 70. I don't know about you guys but I get tired of saying "Wake up". Stop spending money you don't have".

I think the government wants people 'beholding' to them. Because I was self-employed I HAD to get Medicare. I didn't want it. I wanted to pay for my own insurance. I had the money. But I was told, no, I had to use the US Government.

I think if you have the money, you should have to get your own insurance. My brother (due to illness) got Social Security. he had a job as a forklift operator at Walmart. The government made him quit the job because they said he was making too much money. He wanted to be able to take his girlfriend to the movies and dinner with the extra money.

People say, "I paid in to it I should get it". Well the population is living much longer these days. The amount of money most people get is way more than what they paid into it when you average it out. This is all some people have.

I think it would be nice where if you didn't need the money you could decide where you wanted your share to go. I know people I see at the Drs offices, etc who could use it. They were told a long time ago they could live on it when they got old. WHAT A JOKE. It's called massive inflation.

Phew! Now I'm wound up. What does middle class mean anyway? It's an over-used word that has no meaning anymore because there is no middle class if you investigate the amount of money middle class has.

************************************

@Annabellethecat66

Absolutely not true.

Oh, yes it does have meaning. Class in America has been defined and studied for a very long time.

The usual standard is how much money people make, and it's usually in the middle, between most blue collar workers and the wealthy.

Sociologists and others have also correlated cultural norms with each.

You can find additional information online or in any social studies book.

What is meant by the disappearing middle class is that they are now falling out of the defining income range and down.

Moonchilde · ‎05-23-2010

@Ms X wrote:
@Moonchilde wrote:
@Ms X wrote:
Quite simply, this is what happens when companies would rather hire cheap foreign labor than Americans. Had enough of this? I have!

Except that whether people have had enough of it is irrelevant. It's not going to change, in reality, no matter who promises what. Talk is cheap.

Why don't you think it will change, Moonchilde? China has pegged its currency to the US dollar for decades as a way to make their products and workers more competitive. In this way, they have taken our jobs and undercut American products. This is currency manipulation. Even as our government makes trade agreements that flood the USA with Chinese products, China has not similarly opened up its markets to us. Why make such agreements if they are to our detriment?

In terms of taxes and regulations, the US is not competitive with much of the rest of the world. Do you think nothing can be done about this? If so, I strongly disagree.

This is a very complex situation involving taxes, regulations, currency manipulation, varying standards of living, the cost of transporting goods halfway across the world, and a number of things I haven't mentioned and probably don't even know about. Suffice it to say that more could have been done, CAN BE DONE about this than our "public servants" have seen fit to try.

Let's do something for the American worker and for American companies for a change.

Nope. Not going to do my part to turn this into a political thread.

Suffice it to say that no matter what people believe about how straightforward and simple turning things around, "making things right" and "restoring" the US to its economic dominance would be or ought to be, the biggest *desire* in the world isn't enough. You can't bully or bulldoze an entire nation's legislators or population to do anything - no matter who you are. Neither can other countries be wholesale manipulated and controlled to achieve one group's goals just because someone says they can make it happen - even when " It" is a good thing.

Life without Mexican food is no life at all

Ms X · ‎09-13-2012

@Moonchilde I mentioned in my post things that can be done, not the least of which is the USA expecting reciprocity and mutual benefit from trade agreements. It is hardly overstating it that China needs us at least as much as we need them. Many things can be done in terms of opening up markets, loosening regulations in the USA, cutting taxes to help our companies, and working against currency manipulation. I'm not sure why you think my discussion is "political" and yours is not. Suffice it to say that things can be done to help American companies and workers. We will be lucky if this turns out to be the case.

jaxs mom · ‎04-18-2012

A lot of people have never recovered from the recession and not all industries are recovered either.

Don't Change Your Authenticity for Approval

shoekitty · ‎03-10-2010

Part of the problem is when the tech age burst on the scene millions of jobs were eliminated or downsized. My husband for one had a company that kept on yop of things. He was lucky. However, they got rid of the older people, and worked with those like my husband who were a bit younger at the time. He is an engineer. Believe me there is not one engineer who has a compass and slide ruler anymore, Who has a draft table? They don't use the same tools, or supplies. (Think of the workers that used to make those products). Gone. he had to be retrained to design on computer., then they learned a different method. Think of the people in banks who sorted our cashed checks put them in the drawer, and mailed them to you end of the month? Many were of age to retire when many jobs were no longer needed. When we mail our bills in, there is no human to sort, open put them to our acct, deposit them. Think of the operators who answered "may I help you?, and found a phone number, address for you...for FREE.

What I am saying is the middle class was put out of many jobs by machines, computers, or a more efficent way to get work done with the least human time. Shoot there was time not too long ago humans pasted labels to beer bottles in the factory.

I think in several years even teachers will be replaced in many classes by pod casts, by students using ipads. It is sad, but jobs of the future are hard to predict. I am 68, and never 35 years ago could I dream of this world. Shoot I remember a world where you had to see a movie in the theaters, then wait for 5 years before it was shown on TV in black and white. No VHS, CD, DVD for sure!

bri20 · ‎03-10-2016

I predict that the very people screaming about minimum wage being $15 will eventually lose their jobs to some sort of automation.

How many grocery stores have self-service registers with one person manning a bank of 4-6 registers?

Even in Panera, you can order online and pick it up or order it in-store on an iPad.

Moonchilde · ‎05-23-2010

@shoekitty wrote:
Part of the problem is when the tech age burst on the scene millions of jobs were eliminated or downsized. My husband for one had a company that kept on yop of things. He was lucky. However, they got rid of the older people, and worked with those like my husband who were a bit younger at the time. He is an engineer. Believe me there is not one engineer who has a compass and slide ruler anymore, Who has a draft table? They don't use the same tools, or supplies. (Think of the workers that used to make those products). Gone. he had to be retrained to design on computer., then they learned a different method. Think of the people in banks who sorted our cashed checks put them in the drawer, and mailed them to you end of the month? Many were of age to retire when many jobs were no longer needed. When we mail our bills in, there is no human to sort, open put them to our acct, deposit them. Think of the operators who answered "may I help you?, and found a phone number, address for you...for FREE.

What I am saying is the middle class was put out of many jobs by machines, computers, or a more efficent way to get work done with the least human time. Shoot there was time not too long ago humans pasted labels to beer bottles in the factory.
I think in several years even teachers will be replaced in many classes by pod casts, by students using ipads. It is sad, but jobs of the future are hard to predict. I am 68, and never 35 years ago could I dream of this world. Shoot I remember a world where you had to see a movie in the theaters, then wait for 5 years before it was shown on TV in black and white. No VHS, CD, DVD for sure!

But heck, @shoekitty, somehow, some way, it's all our fault, really. We just should have known - that it would happen, what the future cost of living would be, and most important of all - we should have calculated things so that no matter what happened, we would all have sufficient $$ (whatever unknown figure that might be) to take care of ourselves until we die, without government help. If we can't do that, obviously we're worthless, selfish, lazy spendthrifts - always have been, always will be I guess ;-(

😜😏😒😖

Life without Mexican food is no life at all

ZoetheCat · ‎11-30-2014

@Noel7 wrote:
Billionaires keep getting richer while the middle class is disappearing.

THAT is what is wrong, especially since a high percent of our military families are on food stamps .

FOR SHAME. And yet, so many believe those on food stamps don't deserve it.

I completely agree with this. Obviously, there is some misuse of government programs, including food stamps, but I firmly believe that such cases are the minority not the rule. I find it absolutely abhorent when I see people shaming those who use food stamps. When I was in high school many, many years ago, I worked as a grocery store cashier. The way some people treated our customers who used food stamps was embarassing. None of us knows what someone else is dealing with and we have no right to judge.

Having said that, I also agree that there are many people in this country who do feel "entitled" so to speak. Every time I watch a show like "House Hunters" I am amazed at what some of these people expect, especially in a first house. Since many of them are young, it does seem like there is no sense of "going without" in order to gradually work up to the "forever" home. I remember that as a young married couple, my husband and I saved every penny, never went out to dinner or traveled so that we could buy our first home. But then again, we had advantages that a lot of young people don't have now. For one thing, we could pay for college without taking out huge loans. It wasn't easy, but it could be done. That is often not so today.

I also think we sometimes blame young people too much. I know plenty of older people (even older than me, and I'm 55) who have saved very little to nothing. I work in a law office and nearly all of the attorneys (most of them my age or older) that work there are practically broke. It's not always just the younger set who are unprepared for a financial setback.