Community Chat

[LilacTree]

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@Lucky Charm wrote:

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@LilacTree wrote:

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@Lucky Charm wrote:

I've had dental surgery and another (small) surgery in the past couple of months and was given pain killers for both.

They honestly don't take the pain away any more than OTC, they make me feel like I will sleep like a baby, yet once in bed---it's more like insomnia!

I'd rather have a little pain, but a good night's sleep.

I have to go back and get a tooth pulled next week and an implant placed immediately and am sure my oral surgeon will hand me a script.

I wonder if they look at oral surgeons like they do PCPs?

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I've had many dental procedures in the last couple of years.  I always ask for the local anesthesia.  I'm not afraid of needles and the process only takes a few seconds.  I would never want to be "put out" in a dentist's chair.

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I've never been put out for the dentist either.  I get the needles to numb.  But some of the surgeries have been extensive.....so afterwards pain meds, antibiotics and even a prescription mouth wash.

Unfortunately, a tooth we've *babied* for years is loose and it's a big part of my chewing.  Only thing is to pull it and instead of waiting the months for an implant (I've had two before) he wants to do the implant right after.

I've had wisdom teeth pulled recently and I can't imagine all the drilling in the bone right after the trauma of a tooth being pulled out.

I'm not afraid of the dentist at all, but this does make me weak in the knees.

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It's never pleasant, that's for sure.

[mstyrion 1]

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@151949 wrote:

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@mstyrion 1 wrote:

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@151949 wrote:

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@mstyrion 1 wrote:

Hyacinth,

As a mom, your heart breaks for the pain your daughter is experiencing.  However, as an RN you must realize that most doctors aren't going to give opioids to someone with a pain source that is as yet unidentified.  Opioids are meant for very short term use and it sounds like your daughter may need a longer term solution.

Have you considered medical marijuana for her?  They've refined it so much that it is no longer necessary to smoke it or to even get "high" and still reap the pain relief benefits.  Edibles and other forms allow you to control how much is getting into your system without interfering with the quality of life.

I have a friend who has severe arthritis. He is unable to take any form of pain med because past overuse of NSAIDS caused a hole to blow through his stomach. Medical MJ has been a life saver for him.

It's worth exploring.

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Well, except, in most states it is illegal.

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___________________________________________________________

24 states have approved the use of medical MJ including the OP's home state of IL.  

It helps to have your facts in order before you attempt to argue a point.  

...just a suggestion.

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And so that leaves 26 states where it is ILLEGAL.

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____________________________________________________

I really hoped I wouldn't have to point out to you that it is legal in Hyacinth's state and she is the one I directed my comment to. But...

Was that too complex?

[winamac1]

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@LilacTree wrote:

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@winamac1 wrote:

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@LilacTree wrote:

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@momtochloe wrote:

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@LilacTree wrote:

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@momtochloe wrote:

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@chrystaltree wrote:

If it's about the over prescribing of narcotics and pain meds; I'll watch.  There's a national crisis revolving around that.  As for prescription drugs in general; I'm on 5 rx meds myself and I thank God and science every single day for those medications.  At best, I would be a pain wracked disabled woman without them;  at worst, I would be dead from a stroke or heart attack.  Either way, I would not have the life I have now.   I won't be hopping on that "I stay away from prescription drugs" bandwagon......I don't want to go where that would take me.

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@chrystaltree I am more and I repeat more than happy with the people that have been able to live a more normal life with these new medications but my personal family experience reflects a much different and painful experience.

My dad was an honored and  decorated WWII veteran who would have lost his left arm if some (thank God!) smarty pants young doctor hadn't stepped in and adapted a new technique of grafting my dad's arm to the blood vessels in his chest to give his injured arm a chance to grow and heal.  If that young doctor hadn't stepped in my dad would have returned home without an arm and let me tell you my dad made the most of what he had.

He also sufferered from other ailments primarily horrible and crippling RA.  It was a constant challenge but was kept under control with Tylenol 3 with codeine but after many years it just wasn't working.

Unfortuntately the combination of my dad being in so much pain and his very elderly doctor who no longer knew what to do (he should have retired years before but my parents wouldn't go anywhere else) prescribed Percodan which was the frontrunner to Percocet and that is when our nightmare began.

At first it was great.  My dad was pain free, he was able to resume normal activities and everyone was happy but as the drug took hold he became what I know now to be an addict (please know we didn't even have alcohol in the house so we were totally clueless as to what was happening).  I remember going with my mom to the pharmacy with our forms and being told it was too soon and then going home and trying to reason with what I  know now know to be my Percodan addicted father.  The last seven days of that prescription were the longest of our lives.

It was an never ending spiral of trying to keep my dad away from his pills and waiting until it was a reasonable time to try and get the prescription refilled.  It was a horrifying and debilitating experience.

My dad eventually passed from many issues that were probably masked by the Percodan but the guilt that we both felt impacted our relationship for a very long time.  I to this day feel like my dad was an experiment for big pharma and ergo I refuse to take any drugs unless I absolultely have to as between big pharma and the FDA, there (to me) is such collusion that I would rather pass a few years early than suffer what my dad went through.  I wouldn't wish that on anybody.

Shame on the entire industry that follows profits over actual health benefits.

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@momtochloe

I am so sorry to hear this story about your dad.  I have RA myself and know the pain which worsens as time passes.  However, I do not take painkillers because they cause side effects that, to me, are worse than the pain.  I detest the feeling that I'm in La La Land and/or sleeping all day.  That's not a life to me. 

Meds prescribed to me that I won't take are bisphosphonates, statins, any pain killers (especially opiates), and the newer meds for RA called biologics.  All are extremely toxic and dangerous.

Also over-prescribing dosages is a huge problem and I hope that comes up tonight.  I am a small-boned woman who has lost two inches in height due to osteoporosis, and I weigh less than I weighed in high school.  Yet the script dosage is geared toward a 6 foot man weighing 200 lbs. 

I don't know the answers and am hopeful we will learn something tonight.

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I know that you suffer from RA @LilacTree and I am beyond glad that there have been so many advances in the actual treatment of RA instead of just the pain of RA since my dad passed (his last day of work was my last day of high school which was June of 1975).  I have read with much interests the various threads that have discussed RA as I so wish these advances may have been available to my dad during his time although I realize they are not perfect by any means.

There really was nothing available at the time to combat not only the pain but also the inflamation from RA so when Tylenol 3 rolled around it was a Godsend and worked well for both for over a decade but as my dad's tolerance increased it unfortunately led us to Percodan.

I have made my peace with what happened to my dad as my mom and I  did the very best we could.  I am sad that there were so many painful and unfortunate moments because of that drug but what really makes me angry is to realize this has gotten so much worse instead of trying to help people, not addict them.

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It seems they spend too much time on researching new drugs for control instead of looking for a cure.  My guess is they are making a fortune on these RA control drugs (they are all over $1,000 per dose) and it's just too lucrative to give that up and spend the money on finding a cure.

I know that sounds bitter of me and I'm sorry if I have offended anyone. 

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I know of no one who pays $1,000 per dose.  Most of the injections do run about $3,000 per month, but no one pays.  Commercial patients get it for free (copay cards) and Medicare who bring in up to 500% of the Federal Poverty Level get it for free.  500% of the FPL for a family of one is almost $60,000 and for a family of 2....it's $80,000 per year.  Not many on Social Security benefits--or those with SS benefits and pensions are bringing in that much money as income.  Therefore, most patients get these drugs for free.  They are also $3.00 per month or free for Medicaid.  I know this for a fact as I message this daily.

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I've heard that . . . yes.  That doesn't make it any more likely that I will ever take these meds.  I'm 78, and have many severe autoimmune issues.  I am very susceptible to side effects of any med I take.  Fortunately, I have a very high pain threshold.

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I never stated you should take one of these meds. I simply was stating a fact that most patients get these very expensive biologics for free.

I wouldn't take them either if I had an autoimmune disease and was susceptible to infections.   Yes, they can cause infections.  It's in the labeling.

[winamac1]

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@LilacTree wrote:

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@Still Raining wrote:

After my last surgery I realized that I was way, way too happy to take the next pill.  The thought made me smile.  At least I had the presence of mind to empty the bottle down the disposal and out of temptation.  For the first time I understood how someone can get addicted. 

My daughter still laughs about how she came over and saw me looking at the TV and when she asked if I wanted her to turn it on I just thought for a while and said no I was fine watching it when it was off.  Scary stuff.

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Many years ago I was in the hospital for one of my diverticulitis attacks and they gave me a pain killer.  I don't know what it is but when I woke up I felt as though I was in a coffin.  I rang for the nurse and asked her what they had given me and I still can't remember what it was (dilaudid?).  I told her never to give me any med like that again and to make sure she put that on my chart.

Her response was, "really?  most people like it."

As you said . . . "scary stuff."

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dilaudid is a narcotic--hydromorphone

[glorybe]

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@sassenach1 wrote:

Yes, there is much abuse for opioids.  It is awful. 

From another perspective, what about the ones who are truly in horrible pain and need relief?  My mother had nine spine surgeries, the last leaving her with severe pain for the remainder of her life.  She tried every, single thing out there, from biofeedback, PT, steroid epidurals and more.  She was under Pain Clinic management, which was under heavy scrutiny from the DEA. 

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@sassenach1, thank you for bringing this up. There are two sides to this story. I belong to a chronic pain group and the stories of suffering are heartbreaking! Stories of phantom limb pain, failed back surgeries, RSD which is extreme nerve pain (ever have a tooth ache? imagine that continuous pain that is constant). I myself have chronic nerve pain from Cerebral Palsy which has damaged my spine causing it to curve and rotate, along with other medical conditions that cause pain. I have been through shots in my spine, physical therapy, nerve burning in my SI joints, chiropractic early on, but nothing really relieves the pain. I cannot take NSAIDS which I did for years which helped me the most but damaged my kidneys to Stage 3 kidney failure with cysts. I have to deal with Tylenol Arthritis for pain which is a joke, and no I have never been on Opiods myself.

There are many more like me who suffer, some have been on Opioids for years for their pain and are already having them taken away. They are bed bound again and many teeter on the brink of suicide of because their only help for their severe pain was the prescribed Opiods. The DEA is going after the wrong people! Go after the ones who are stealing other people's medicine, feeding their drug habit for a high!

[glorybe]

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@winamac1 wrote:

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@LilacTree wrote:

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@Still Raining wrote:

After my last surgery I realized that I was way, way too happy to take the next pill.  The thought made me smile.  At least I had the presence of mind to empty the bottle down the disposal and out of temptation.  For the first time I understood how someone can get addicted. 

My daughter still laughs about how she came over and saw me looking at the TV and when she asked if I wanted her to turn it on I just thought for a while and said no I was fine watching it when it was off.  Scary stuff.

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Many years ago I was in the hospital for one of my diverticulitis attacks and they gave me a pain killer.  I don't know what it is but when I woke up I felt as though I was in a coffin.  I rang for the nurse and asked her what they had given me and I still can't remember what it was (dilaudid?).  I told her never to give me any medW like that again and to make sure she put that on my chart.

Her response was, "really?  most people like it."

As you said . . . "scary stuff."

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dilaudid is a narcotic--hydromorphone

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@winamac1, I know that you have the background for understanding drugs and what is appropriate. There is a need for proper medication for specific conditions. It feels like the DEA is now on a witch hunt and putting the legitimate chronic pain patients in the same group as people using them to get high and are addicted, not dependent on them for chronic intractible pain. Your thoughts?

ETA that I am just now reading this tonight and now realize this has been discussed previously. Sorry.

[hyacinth003]

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@Trinity11 wrote:

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@hyacinth003 wrote:

Has anyone besides my daughter been a VICTIM of doctors NOT medicating pain because of all this?

She is in a lot of pain in her lower body and has weakness in her legs.  She has cut her work hours to 12/week and really doesn't feel she can continue due to the pain.

We have had hear to about 10 doctors who refuse to give her pain medication.  No one can figure out what is wrong.  She has had all the neurological testing (MRI's of the whole central nervous system), 2 rheumatologists, a pain control doctor, her primary doctor several times.

We don't know what is causing the pain, yet her life is spiraling downward.  She doesn't want to go out, has gained weight, doesn't feel she can work, and they all say - no pain medication.  I think it is CRUEL, and it is due to this topic.

I am an RN, so I have a PROFESSIONAL opinion of this too - it is dead wrong.  She is naturally becoming depressed due to constant pain.  They have tried Celebrex, 4 other NSAID's, Neurontin, but refuse narcotic pain medication.  Oh I know the dangers of opiods.  I think at least TRYING to give her some pain relief is the RIGHT thing to do.

My husband has rheumatoid arthritis, and he had to sign contracts and give a urine sample to get his pain medication.  Sounds like Russia to me.

So, nothing personal to anyone, excuse me if I DON'T care about people MISUSING prescription medication when my daughter tells me "Mom, I hurt so bad."  She is my baby, and I cannot get help for her.

Hyacinth

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Hyacinth, I have read of your struggles finding a diagnosis for your daughter. Has she had a workup for MS? All of what you have written about your daughter sounds very familiar. My friend went through a similar time with her physicians until finally she was diagnosed with MS. She still has chronic pain but she is a lot more comfortable since her diagnosis. It took three years before the final diagnosis was made. Before that she was in pain on a chronic basis with little to no meds for it.

There are certain what they call "orphan" diseases that only a major medical center seem to know about and diagnose. Perhaps you can do some more research although I am sure you have already.

I do hope that with further investigation a diagnosis will be made for your daughter. It must be very difficult for you having to see your daughter hurt this way. Please know that I will keep all of you in my prayers.

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Yes, she has been worked up for MS.  My mother had MS and did have significant pain in her legs.  Pain medication did NOT work for her.  She ended up with a Baclofen pump (implanted in spine) and it helped her tremendously.  Neurological issues are difficult to treat with opiods.  My daughter had her WHOLE spine and brain tested with MRI.  She had an EMG also.  I feel like her symptoms are somewhat like my mother's, but all her MRI's were normal.

She has been like this for at least 1 1/2 years and is getting worse.  They could at least try to see if pain medication would help that part for her quality of life.  Of course, we want to know what is doing it to see if there is treatment for it.  She will reject any medication if it makes her feel funny, so there's little chance she would be a problem on pain medication!

I don't like the GOVERNMENT dictating medical decisions to doctors.  That is not their role.  Doctors need to do right by their patients, and sometimes relief of pain is the right thing.  Even in the pain management clinic, we were told "we don't use opiods."  Really?  A pain clinic?  So, as is often with government intervention, they overstep into places they don't belong in.  Health care professionals are trained to make these decisions.

And for anyone who THINKS they are superior and would not ever need these medications, you never know.  I never thought my 20 something daughter would.

Hyacinth

[mstyrion 1]

I suspect the government had to to step in when it became clear the medical community was not doing a good job of policing themselves.  We wouldn't have an opioid problem in this country had they not been over-prescribed in the first place.

When the American appetite for opioids became insatiable, sketchy pain clinics opened and contributed to the addiction problem. The medical community again failed to police themselves by closing down these "pill mills".

I also strongly suspect that e very single addict who became dependant on prescribed narcotics started out thinking, "no, not me. that will never happen to me. I am a responsible person. the addicts are weak, criminal types".  

I support responsible use of pain killers. Responsibility comes with a price.

[KarenQVC]

I checked the data.  Virtually all opioid overdoses are between ages 20 and 60.  I think it is time to get off the backs of the old codgers who need them because of increasing chronic pain.

Please know, I have no dog in this race, because I have just used them for a couple days after surgeries.  However, I think the feds are harassing the wrong group of people.