Community Chat

[gertrudecloset]

Mother Nature will always surprise us. Some people think government is the fix and answer to everything. Others think you have to be prepared because there's no one coming to help you when things go haywire.

@Lali1FEMA is on its way with help.  Texas has been declared a disaster area.  So yeah, some one is on its way to help and fortunately, it's better than nothing.

[goldensrbest]

Not all regulation is bad, why did they chose going it alone?

[Sooner]

@goldensrbest I'm sure there are LOTS of articles about that or soon will be.  Wall Street Journal surely will have some, and might have a few more facts and figures that others. 

[agb80]

Honestly, I am beyond perplexed by what I'm reading in the news.  Y'all need to reprint your bumper stickers Don't Mess With Texas! 

I love TEXAS and I will not sit idly by and watch OUTLIERS come in and turn it.  If they succeed it will be a total disaster! 

[Mindy D]

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@agb80 wrote:

Honestly, I am beyond perplexed by what I'm reading in the news.  Y'all need to reprint your bumper stickers Don't Mess With Texas! 

I love TEXAS and I will not sit idly by and watch OUTLIERS come in and turn it.  If they succeed it will be a total disaster! 

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@agb80 @Hi, I'm the OP. This thread is not about Texas. 

[Sooner]

@Mindy D Among the issues, the polar ice caps have come and gone before, and since climate change has often happend rapidly and not consistently over the earth it is difficult to know what will happen.  

The only sure thing we know is climate does and will change.  And some people are using the issues for their personal advantage.  Another fact that goes way way back!  

[bikerbabe]

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@agb80 wrote:

Honestly, I am beyond perplexed by what I'm reading in the news.  Y'all need to reprint your bumper stickers Don't Mess With Texas! 

I love TEXAS and I will not sit idly by and watch OUTLIERS come in and turn it.  If they succeed it will be a total disaster! 

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Outliers? I'm not sure what this means. I imagine Texas, like any state, has residents with differing opinions and viewpoints. 🤷🏻‍♀️

[Nonametoday]

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@Cakers3 wrote:

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@gardenman wrote:

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@agb80 wrote:

Didn't Ercot drop the ball? I'm sure Texas leadership will figure this out take care that it never happens again.  

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From what I understand, part of the problem was federal pollution laws. Texas applied for a waiver to those laws so they could use older generators they had on standby that exceeded the federal pollution regulations. The Feds said okay, but insisted the electricity generated by those plants had to be billed at $1500 per MWh which is something like 4000% more than the normal rate. There were other hurdles also, but Texas and Ercot didn't get caught with their pants down. They saw the cold coming and asked for federal help well in advance, but the federal government put an enormous financial penalty on them if they used the alternate means they had available. 

In my opinion, the feds should have given them the green light to use whatever they needed during the cold snap without a ginormous financial penalty. The feds made it nearly impossible for them to use the means they had available though and that punished the residents of Texas. 

The law required Texas to seek approval before restarting those older plants and the feds opted to impose a very harsh penalty on them if they did so. The feds didn't care about the people of Texas in an emergency. They loved their rules and regulations more than the people. Here's a link to the order from the Department of Energy if anyone doubts what I've written.

https://www.energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2021/02/f82/DOE%20202%28c%29%20Emergency%20Order%20-%20ERCOT... 

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@gardenman   This is true but there were issue longs before this monster storm swept in.

This is a complicated issue stemming from the beginning of ERCOT to the current disaster.

It isn't all cut and dried as to where the blame belongs. 

Also Texas does have limited access to the East Coast Grid and the Mexican Grid.

There will be a lot of finger-pointing, blame, and the usual misinformation spewed out by the media-and depending upon which side the media favors we will not be given a tightly sewn up story.

Considering Texas was moments away from a total breakdown-meaning all residents would have lost power (and the subsequent water etc. issues) this is not going to be resolved overnight.

Texas is not the favorite child in this nation; and this disaster will be used against the state for all the wrong reasons.

People are coming in from other states to help out with food/water distributions and that is what I look for-the universal community of humanity.

The rest will  have to be taken care of by the PTB and we shall see what will change. 

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@Cakers3   People flood California from miles and miles around to fight fires caused by old dead trees and too many sucker trees that will never amount to anything but fire hazards but they are the untouchables.   California and NY are the worst favored states in the country and for good reason.

[gertrudecloset]

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@Nonametoday wrote:

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@Cakers3 wrote:

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@gardenman wrote:

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@agb80 wrote:

Didn't Ercot drop the ball? I'm sure Texas leadership will figure this out take care that it never happens again.  

---

From what I understand, part of the problem was federal pollution laws. Texas applied for a waiver to those laws so they could use older generators they had on standby that exceeded the federal pollution regulations. The Feds said okay, but insisted the electricity generated by those plants had to be billed at $1500 per MWh which is something like 4000% more than the normal rate. There were other hurdles also, but Texas and Ercot didn't get caught with their pants down. They saw the cold coming and asked for federal help well in advance, but the federal government put an enormous financial penalty on them if they used the alternate means they had available. 

In my opinion, the feds should have given them the green light to use whatever they needed during the cold snap without a ginormous financial penalty. The feds made it nearly impossible for them to use the means they had available though and that punished the residents of Texas. 

The law required Texas to seek approval before restarting those older plants and the feds opted to impose a very harsh penalty on them if they did so. The feds didn't care about the people of Texas in an emergency. They loved their rules and regulations more than the people. Here's a link to the order from the Department of Energy if anyone doubts what I've written.

https://www.energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2021/02/f82/DOE%20202%28c%29%20Emergency%20Order%20-%20ERCOT... 

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@gardenman   This is true but there were issue longs before this monster storm swept in.

This is a complicated issue stemming from the beginning of ERCOT to the current disaster.

It isn't all cut and dried as to where the blame belongs. 

Also Texas does have limited access to the East Coast Grid and the Mexican Grid.

There will be a lot of finger-pointing, blame, and the usual misinformation spewed out by the media-and depending upon which side the media favors we will not be given a tightly sewn up story.

Considering Texas was moments away from a total breakdown-meaning all residents would have lost power (and the subsequent water etc. issues) this is not going to be resolved overnight.

Texas is not the favorite child in this nation; and this disaster will be used against the state for all the wrong reasons.

People are coming in from other states to help out with food/water distributions and that is what I look for-the universal community of humanity.

The rest will  have to be taken care of by the PTB and we shall see what will change. 

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@Cakers3   People flood California from miles and miles around to fight fires caused by old dead trees and too many sucker trees that will never amount to anything but fire hazards but they are the untouchables.   California and NY are the worst favored states in the country and for good reason.

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@Nonametodaycan you expound on this a bit more?  I don't fully understand what you're saying.  I don't want to misinterpret it.....

Just for the sake of discussion....

[gertrudecloset]

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@gardenman wrote:

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@agb80 wrote:

Didn't Ercot drop the ball? I'm sure Texas leadership will figure this out take care that it never happens again.  

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From what I understand, part of the problem was federal pollution laws. Texas applied for a waiver to those laws so they could use older generators they had on standby that exceeded the federal pollution regulations. The Feds said okay, but insisted the electricity generated by those plants had to be billed at $1500 per MWh which is something like 4000% more than the normal rate. There were other hurdles also, but Texas and Ercot didn't get caught with their pants down. They saw the cold coming and asked for federal help well in advance, but the federal government put an enormous financial penalty on them if they used the alternate means they had available. 

In my opinion, the feds should have given them the green light to use whatever they needed during the cold snap without a ginormous financial penalty. The feds made it nearly impossible for them to use the means they had available though and that punished the residents of Texas. 

The law required Texas to seek approval before restarting those older plants and the feds opted to impose a very harsh penalty on them if they did so. The feds didn't care about the people of Texas in an emergency. They loved their rules and regulations more than the people. Here's a link to the order from the Department of Energy if anyone doubts what I've written.

https://www.energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2021/02/f82/DOE%20202%28c%29%20Emergency%20Order%20-%20ERCOT... 

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Which year did this happen in @gardenman ?  I'm asking about when Texas energy suppliers asked the Federal government for help?  I thought they didn't want it!  I'm confused still about this whole thing.

Independence?  Yes or No.  Help?  Yes or No?  I thought the Times Article had cleared it all up for me, but maybe not.