Community Chat

[Isobel Archer]

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@CrazyDaisy wrote:

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@Isobel Archer wrote:

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@gertrudecloset wrote:

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@Isobel Archer wrote:

Well since we are wildly speculating - how do we know the kids weren't in a gang and were provided the gun illegally - and that shooting someone was their initiation.

This happens - and probably more often than kids taking a gun from their home and just deciding to shoot someone on a whim.

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Here you come with the nonsensical questions.  Eight year olds and nine year olds typically are not good to gangs.  Think about that for a minute @Isobel Archer .

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I think you need to do some research about gangs - and the ages of kids in them.

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When dealing with gangs, yes they can be very young.  However gangs in the country do not exist.  

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 For a while, at least. The FBI's annual National Gang Threat Assessment in 2011 was blunt in its appraisal of gangs' interest in these untapped areas.

"Gang members are migrating from urban areas to suburban and rural communities to recruit new members, expand their drug distribution territories, form new alliances, and collaborate with rival gangs and criminal organizations for profit and influence," the report said.

[Bridgegal]

@agb80 

I got it and agree.

[Gorgf]

@Isobel Archer  You are correct.

Fifteen years ago we had a large gang problem in our small town of 5000  and neighboring reservation . It was so much of a concern that schools had  inservices and local police brought in law enforcement specialists in gang behavior. We were to be able to recognize symbols and dress codes but it changed often. I was teaching at the time. High School kids were recruited by well known Urban gangs. I would see hand signals to Elementary age kids.  At that time kids got beaten in. They would avoid areas that were exposed or not able to be covered with clothing. Local gangs began as well.

We had one fatal shooting and drive by shootings in several neighborhoods.  Drug use and drug sales increased. Illegal hand guns were used. It was a scary time to be a teacher even in rural America.

There just are too many unanswered questions to speculate how, what and why this incident  happened.  Easy to speculate and blame until the facts are released. Minors are involved and some facts may not be shared.

[Isobel Archer]

Absolutely agree that we don't know the details of what or why or how this incident happened.

My point - along with avoiding wild speculation designed to further a narrative, is that while people are so concerned about guns, many of the same people are clueless about actual crime and who is committing it and how it's being committed.

To claim that kids that young are never in gangs, or that gangs "don't exist" in the "country." etc etc. just. proves my point.

Even after all the publicity about the opioid explosion, many are cluless about the drug trafficking that is still ongoing - and flourishing.

And then there is sex trafficking as well.

And while this man's death was certainly a tragedy - look at what is happening - every day - in the larger cities in terms of shootings and deaths.  And it's getting worse.  Look also at knifings, rapes,  and other assaults.  It's not safe out there.

[CrazyDaisy]

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@Isobel Archer wrote:

Absolutely agree that we don't know the details of what or why or how this incident happened.

My point - along with avoiding wild speculation designed to further a narrative, is that while people are so concerned about guns, many of the same people are clueless about actual crime and who is committing it and how it's being committed.

To claim that kids that young are never in gangs, or that gangs "don't exist" in the "country." etc etc. just. proves my point.

Even after all the publicity about the opioid explosion, many are cluless about the drug trafficking that is still ongoing - and flourishing.

And then there is sex trafficking as well.

And while this man's death was certainly a tragedy - look at what is happening - every day - in the larger cities in terms of shootings and deaths.  And it's getting worse.  Look also at knifings, rapes,  and other assaults.  It's not safe out there.

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There is a distinction between criminal activity and gang actitity.

[Isobel Archer]

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@CrazyDaisy wrote:

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@Isobel Archer wrote:

Absolutely agree that we don't know the details of what or why or how this incident happened.

My point - along with avoiding wild speculation designed to further a narrative, is that while people are so concerned about guns, many of the same people are clueless about actual crime and who is committing it and how it's being committed.

To claim that kids that young are never in gangs, or that gangs "don't exist" in the "country." etc etc. just. proves my point.

Even after all the publicity about the opioid explosion, many are cluless about the drug trafficking that is still ongoing - and flourishing.

And then there is sex trafficking as well.

And while this man's death was certainly a tragedy - look at what is happening - every day - in the larger cities in terms of shootings and deaths.  And it's getting worse.  Look also at knifings, rapes,  and other assaults.  It's not safe out there.

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There is a distinction between criminal activity and gang actitity.

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Well I realize that many people don't consider selling drugs, or burglary or looting actual crimes - but what other distinctions do you want us to understand?

[CrazyDaisy]

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@Isobel Archer wrote:

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@CrazyDaisy wrote:

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@Isobel Archer wrote:

Absolutely agree that we don't know the details of what or why or how this incident happened.

My point - along with avoiding wild speculation designed to further a narrative, is that while people are so concerned about guns, many of the same people are clueless about actual crime and who is committing it and how it's being committed.

To claim that kids that young are never in gangs, or that gangs "don't exist" in the "country." etc etc. just. proves my point.

Even after all the publicity about the opioid explosion, many are cluless about the drug trafficking that is still ongoing - and flourishing.

And then there is sex trafficking as well.

And while this man's death was certainly a tragedy - look at what is happening - every day - in the larger cities in terms of shootings and deaths.  And it's getting worse.  Look also at knifings, rapes,  and other assaults.  It's not safe out there.

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There is a distinction between criminal activity and gang actitity.

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Well I realize that many people don't consider selling drugs, or burglary or looting actual crimes - but what other distinctions do you want us to understand?

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Well I am not one of them....the distinction being that not all crime is committed by gangs.  Gangs typically identify themselves by race or nationality, not much diversity to recruit from in rural America.  

[Mersha]

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@CrazyDaisy wrote:

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@Isobel Archer wrote:

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@CrazyDaisy wrote:

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@Isobel Archer wrote:

Absolutely agree that we don't know the details of what or why or how this incident happened.

My point - along with avoiding wild speculation designed to further a narrative, is that while people are so concerned about guns, many of the same people are clueless about actual crime and who is committing it and how it's being committed.

To claim that kids that young are never in gangs, or that gangs "don't exist" in the "country." etc etc. just. proves my point.

Even after all the publicity about the opioid explosion, many are cluless about the drug trafficking that is still ongoing - and flourishing.

And then there is sex trafficking as well.

And while this man's death was certainly a tragedy - look at what is happening - every day - in the larger cities in terms of shootings and deaths.  And it's getting worse.  Look also at knifings, rapes,  and other assaults.  It's not safe out there.

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There is a distinction between criminal activity and gang actitity.

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Well I realize that many people don't consider selling drugs, or burglary or looting actual crimes - but what other distinctions do you want us to understand?

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Well I am not one of them....the distinction being that not all crime is committed by gangs.  Gangs typically identify themselves by race or nationality, not much diversity to recruit from in rural America.  

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@CrazyDaisy  To the contrary, let's not forget about the Proud Boys and a multitude of other groups with same ideology.

Rural America is a hotbed for "gangs" like that.

[CrazyDaisy]

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@Mersha wrote:

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@CrazyDaisy wrote:

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@Isobel Archer wrote:

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@CrazyDaisy wrote:

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@Isobel Archer wrote:

Absolutely agree that we don't know the details of what or why or how this incident happened.

My point - along with avoiding wild speculation designed to further a narrative, is that while people are so concerned about guns, many of the same people are clueless about actual crime and who is committing it and how it's being committed.

To claim that kids that young are never in gangs, or that gangs "don't exist" in the "country." etc etc. just. proves my point.

Even after all the publicity about the opioid explosion, many are cluless about the drug trafficking that is still ongoing - and flourishing.

And then there is sex trafficking as well.

And while this man's death was certainly a tragedy - look at what is happening - every day - in the larger cities in terms of shootings and deaths.  And it's getting worse.  Look also at knifings, rapes,  and other assaults.  It's not safe out there.

---

There is a distinction between criminal activity and gang actitity.

---

Well I realize that many people don't consider selling drugs, or burglary or looting actual crimes - but what other distinctions do you want us to understand?

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Well I am not one of them....the distinction being that not all crime is committed by gangs.  Gangs typically identify themselves by race or nationality, not much diversity to recruit from in rural America.  

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@CrazyDaisy  To the contrary, let's not forget about the Proud Boys and a multitude of other groups with same ideology.

Rural America is a hotbed for "gangs" like that.

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Gangs are not usually identified by ideology or every church group  or political affiliation would be considered a "gang".  

[Mersha]

@CrazyDaisy   The following is info from the National Institute of Justice on the definition of a gang per the Federal government:

Federal definition. The federal definition of gang as used by the Department of Justice and the Department of Homeland Security's Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), is [1]:

1. An association of three or more individuals;
2. Whose members collectively identify themselves by adopting a group identity, which they use to create an atmosphere of fear or intimidation, frequently by employing one or more of the following: a common name, slogan, identifying sign, symbol, tattoo or other physical marking, style or color of clothing, hairstyle, hand sign or graffiti;
3. Whose purpose in part is to engage in criminal activity and which uses violence or intimidation to further its criminal objectives.
4. Whose members engage in criminal activity or acts of juvenile delinquency that if committed by an adult would be crimes with the intent to enhance or preserve the association's power, reputation or economic resources.
5. The association may also possess some of the following characteristics:
   1. The members may employ rules for joining and operating within the association.
   2. The members may meet on a recurring basis.
   3. The association may provide physical protection of its members from others.
   4. The association may seek to exercise control over a particular geographic location or region, or it may simply defend its perceived interests against rivals.
   5. The association may have an identifiable structure.