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Respected Contributor
Posts: 2,810
Registered: ‎03-10-2010

Re: Volunteers Guard Recruitment Centers


@baker wrote:

Ever hear of friendly fire! How many soldiers have been killed in the line of duty when the there's confusion during a fire fight, and these men are trained profeessionals. I do not agree that concerned citizens should be armed and in public places. Let's thank our soldiers and their families with our tax dollars so they can go to school, get good jobs and get medical and psychological care they need and deserve.


Many people, men and women, here in Idaho, have concealed weapons and they have the permits to go with them. As we go about our ways, we have no idea who does, and who doesn't.. Standing guard in front of recruiters offices is fine with me. 

 

mm

 

"Cats are like potato chips, you can never have just one".
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Posts: 767
Registered: ‎07-12-2010

Re: Volunteers Guard Recruitment Centers

[ Edited ]

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Respected Contributor
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Registered: ‎03-10-2010

Re: Volunteers Guard Recruitment Centers


@surfk wrote:

@dooBdoo wrote:

 

 

There were 2 facilities under attack, the recruitment center and the reserves training center.

 

I want to repeat what I said earlier -- the soldiers who were killed were in the reserves center and they were armed.  They did fire on the coward, and they very likely saved others as did the armed law enforcement officers.  Heroes in my book.

 

The recruitment center was a case of a storefront being riddled with fire with no notice, and then the shooter speeding away.  Being armed in a recruitment center fired upon by a person in a car who then immediately drove away wouldn't have helped.  If the person enters the facility (as happened with the reserves center), then certainly it can make a huge difference.

 

Those who are trying to stand in defense in front of storefront facilities on private property might be doing a bit of personal grandstanding (sorry, but it does happen) but most of them do so because they want to do something to make things better and this was their first thought. 

 

I'm not at all sure the first thought is the best. 

 

They're making themselves targets for snipers, they're not necessarily trained to deal with the kind of attack they want to protect others from, and they're on private property (which opens a new kettle of liability fish) in a case in which we don't know if this incident was isolated and will never happen again. 

 

(By the way, in Tennessee the National Guard recruiters temporarily have been moved to local armories, so they're no longer on private property.)

 

I think the solution would be for our military to be armed (again, as they were in the reserves center) and also for their facilities to avoid vulnerabilities such as sitting behind open glass doors and windows in a public place on private property.

 

 


I agree. Its a show. Probably a valiant show. But, tactically, its essentially an ineffective show.

 

We need better, more creative and more effective ways to guard and protect all of our people and resources.

 

Not every answer is to found in an old Western movie. And no. Not even in an old John Wayne WWII picture, either. lol

 

Its a whole other world today.



@surfk wrote:

@dooBdoo wrote:

 

 

There were 2 facilities under attack, the recruitment center and the reserves training center.

 

I want to repeat what I said earlier -- the soldiers who were killed were in the reserves center and they were armed.  They did fire on the coward, and they very likely saved others as did the armed law enforcement officers.  Heroes in my book.

 

The recruitment center was a case of a storefront being riddled with fire with no notice, and then the shooter speeding away.  Being armed in a recruitment center fired upon by a person in a car who then immediately drove away wouldn't have helped.  If the person enters the facility (as happened with the reserves center), then certainly it can make a huge difference.

 

Those who are trying to stand in defense in front of storefront facilities on private property might be doing a bit of personal grandstanding (sorry, but it does happen) but most of them do so because they want to do something to make things better and this was their first thought. 

 

I'm not at all sure the first thought is the best. 

 

They're making themselves targets for snipers, they're not necessarily trained to deal with the kind of attack they want to protect others from, and they're on private property (which opens a new kettle of liability fish) in a case in which we don't know if this incident was isolated and will never happen again. 

 

(By the way, in Tennessee the National Guard recruiters temporarily have been moved to local armories, so they're no longer on private property.)

 

I think the solution would be for our military to be armed (again, as they were in the reserves center) and also for their facilities to avoid vulnerabilities such as sitting behind open glass doors and windows in a public place on private property.

 

 


I agree. Its a show. Probably a valiant show. But, tactically, its essentially an ineffective show.

 

We need better, more creative and more effective ways to guard and protect all of our people and resources.

 

Not every answer is to found in an old Western movie. And no. Not even in an old John Wayne WWII picture, either. lol

 

Its a whole other world today.




 

Agreed.  But I am sure my post will be removed for being off topic - which none of my posts WERE.    I happen to be of the dissenting opinion that what is going on is a BAD idea and for some reason - that is OFF TOPIC.

 

People talking about all of their guns - okay.  Fearing for our country due to the obsession (note - moderators - that isn't about GUN CONTROL) is not okay.  It is just an opinion.

 

 

 

If you can't fix what's broken, you'll go insane ~ Max
Look, I don’t like the taste of broccoli, but it doesn’t get tastier if you call it “Broccoli!”!
You mustn't be afraid to dream a little bigger, darling. ~ Eames
Respected Contributor
Posts: 4,136
Registered: ‎06-03-2010

Re: Volunteers Guard Recruitment Centers


@terrier3 wrote:

@Kachina624 wrote:

@Lila Belle wrote:

I don't think it's appropiate for citizens to do no matter how well intentioned.


I agree.  The average man with a gun is not trained to handle situations with people with mental problems or to to evaluate their potential risk.  Somebody is going to get hurt.  This is the job of law enforcement.  If I were the property owner I'd have them removed before I got sued.


ITA!

 

There is a federal law that PROHIBITS soldiers from having weapons on US soil. It's the Posse Comitatus Act .

 

Either the law has to be changed, or STATE professional security can guard them.

 

BTW - one of the Navy men did have a weapon (a Glock) and fired back. He was very brave, drawing fire to keep other people safe. RIP.


that law specifically applies to the Army.......it does not specifically apply to the Navy or Marines.........it doesn't apply at all to the National Guard or Coast Guard.

 

It also states the Army can not be armed to be used as law enforcement.......it does not state they can not be in uniform and DEFEND themselves..........................................raven

We're not in Kansas anymore ToTo
Respected Contributor
Posts: 4,136
Registered: ‎06-03-2010

Re: Volunteers Guard Recruitment Centers


@dooBdoo wrote:

 

 

There were 2 facilities under attack, the recruitment center and the reserves training center.

 

I want to repeat what I said earlier -- the soldiers who were killed were in the reserves center and they were armed.  They did fire on the coward, and they very likely saved others as did the armed law enforcement officers.  Heroes in my book.

 

The recruitment center was a case of a storefront being riddled with fire with no notice, and then the shooter speeding away.  Being armed in a recruitment center fired upon by a person in a car who then immediately drove away wouldn't have helped.  If the person enters the facility (as happened with the reserves center), then certainly it can make a huge difference.

 

Those who are trying to stand in defense in front of storefront facilities on private property might be doing a bit of personal grandstanding (sorry, but it does happen) but most of them do so because they want to do something to make things better and this was their first thought. 

 

I'm not at all sure the first thought is the best. 

 

They're making themselves targets for snipers, they're not necessarily trained to deal with the kind of attack they want to protect others from, and they're on private property (which opens a new kettle of liability fish) in a case in which we don't know if this incident was isolated and will never happen again. 

 

(By the way, in Tennessee the National Guard recruiters temporarily have been moved to local armories, so they're no longer on private property.)

 

I think the solution would be for our military to be armed (again, as they were in the reserves center) and also for their facilities to avoid vulnerabilities such as sitting behind open glass doors and windows in a public place on private property.

 

 


I think what you've posted is a little misleading dooBdoo..........the "they".........."they" weren't armed........ONE was armed, Lt. Cmdr. Tim White and he did return fire............only ONE GUN was found at the scene that did not belong to the shooter or law enforcement....................................................raven

We're not in Kansas anymore ToTo
Honored Contributor
Posts: 16,910
Registered: ‎06-27-2010

Re: Volunteers Guard Recruitment Centers

[ Edited ]

 

I've spoken with one of the local law enforcement officers recently.   Investigation is still ongoing, but they openly have stated that 2 of the military personnel's weapons were found at the scene and at least one of them was used to fire at the coward.   That's the official report so far.  The fact remains that some of the individuals were armed in that particular location.

 

("They" can mean one or more individuals, by the way.)

 

None of this changes what I wrote, I don't feel my comments were misleading, so my opinions still stand.

 

⭐️Tact is the art of making a point without making an enemy. Howard W. Newton⭐️
Respected Contributor
Posts: 4,270
Registered: ‎04-20-2012

Re: Volunteers Guard Recruitment Centers

doo....I find it a little confusing because of the following quote from the article in the news article I posted in my opening post but I of course believe what you are saying.

 

The Defense Department and the Army prohibit weapons from being inside recruiting offices. The Army Recruiting Battalion said via email, “In light of the attack, the Army will increase vigilance and review security measures, in particular at stand alone sites.”

Honored Contributor
Posts: 16,910
Registered: ‎06-27-2010

Re: Volunteers Guard Recruitment Centers

[ Edited ]

kittywhipped wrote:

doo....I find it a little confusing because of the following quote from the article in the news article I posted in my opening post but I of course believe what you are saying.

 

The Defense Department and the Army prohibit weapons from being inside recruiting offices. The Army Recruiting Battalion said via email, “In light of the attack, the Army will increase vigilance and review security measures, in particular at stand alone sites.”


 

 

Thanks, @foundinlv.  I've been more personally involved in this event than I ever would've hoped to be.

 

There are numerous sources, but this is from the most recent press comments by the FBI:

 

"Two guns belonging to service members were recovered at the scene, he said; shots were fired from at least one. It's unclear if the gunman was hit by one of those weapons, Reinhold said. The military will investigate whether the service members were authorized to have those weapons."

 

(source:  http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/local/story/2015/jul/22/live-updates-press-conference-chattanooga...

⭐️Tact is the art of making a point without making an enemy. Howard W. Newton⭐️
Respected Contributor
Posts: 4,010
Registered: ‎08-29-2010

Re: Volunteers Guard Recruitment Centers

I personally don't care who fired, or if they fired.  What matters to me is that we all feel less safe.

Strive for respect instead of attention. It lasts longer.
Honored Contributor
Posts: 16,910
Registered: ‎06-27-2010

Re: Volunteers Guard Recruitment Centers

[ Edited ]

 

 

I agree, @IamMrsG... feeling less safe. Smiley Sad 

⭐️Tact is the art of making a point without making an enemy. Howard W. Newton⭐️