Community Chat

[goldensrbest]

People think  having depression is just  easy to overcome,well i have had it for so long, and it seems some think ,i am a little different but it makes me able to feel for others , because i know  how they feel,it is not easy.

[Moonchilde]

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wrote:

Ok, well, I live by the ferry to the San Juan Islands in Washington State.

If you know anything about this ferry system, it's fairly busy.  More so in summer, but still busy because it is the only way (outside of private plane or boat) to get to the San Juans.  That means not just people, but goods, etc.

So last Thursday a young woman, 30 years old, drove her car right off the ferry dock and into the water and drowned.

It looks like suicide, from the sequence of events.

It held up the ferries for several hours, first while local law enforcement and Coast Guard searched for car, then towed car and retrieved body.

Ferries were stopped in both directions during that time, and ferries that were en route had to turn around and go back to their point of departure.

So what do you think should be done in this case?  Forget about retrieving the car and body?  Stop searching after a half hour, so that traffic doesn't get held up?

What is the value of a human life?

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Not being able to take a ferry isn’t the same as gridlock on a highway; apples & oranges. When people go back to their point of departure, they are then free to get in cars or other modes of transportation. If the ferries don’t run people can go back to their cars & go another day, or later. No one is literally trapped with no way to go or get anywhere else. There are restrooms, heat, lights and food.

”Several hours” (6?) is not unusual or unreasonable for people just to have to deal. When it’s 8-10-12+ hours, things get real. Other, living people have needs. Everyone knows what happened to the woman. Whether they recover her body at 5 pm on a Tuesday or 6 am on a Wednesday won’t actually affect anything. It’s not like if they don’t pull the car up ASAP she’d still be alive. That might be true for the first hour, but not much more.

NOT searching (stopping searching) for a given length of time and then resuming the search is not the same as giving up altogether and never searching again. And we are speaking of a deceased person, not someone threatening suicide but alive. 

I don’t see the benefit to valuing a deceased person over living people, and yes, I would value the living over the dead.

[Ms tyrion2]

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wrote:

“The good of the many outweighs the good of the few, or the one.”

Not always a popular thought or belief, but a part of our society.

Is the potentially lost life of one person worth more than the lives of potentially multiple others affected? Sitting in a vehicle unable to escape for that many hours - whether it’s 16 or 12 - can be deadly for diabetics and those with other serious chronic illnesses, the elderly, and the young.  There is a restroom issue for one thing. Trying not to go could cause severe issues.

Is it a reasonable assumption that every person needs to make sure, no matter their age or physical capabilities, that every single time they ever leave their home to do anything, they need to have with them in their car anything and everything they need for 24 hrs away from home? In case they should run into a scenario such as this?

There may be people on the way to the hospital, people having cancer treatments, sick toddlers, and many other situations. Is their “worth”, individually and collectively, all much less than the lone potential jumper? If so, why? 

The suicidal person is not less worthy, but neither are they more worthy. Extra effort can and should be made on behalf of these people, yes, agreed. But when the extra effort strangles the lives of the entire community for half a day, when do you reevaluate the situation and change tactics? Because really, the good of the many nearly always does outweigh the good of the few or the one. Regardless of where it originated, it’s the way all govts work, and most people feel, and it’s not a new idea.

The good of the many....

Although it may sound biblical or something from an ancient philosopher it is attributed to Star Trek, uttered by Mr. Spock. Although I love the Mr. Spock character, I don't think one should determine their moral compass by a TV show character.

The situation is tragic and I'm sure aggravating to lots of people. There is no easy solution, but consider this. If he had really jumped, the highway would still have been closed down for hours. They always are for a fatality. A car accident fatality would cause the same total shut down. 

We should be glad it wasn't closed because of a dead body and that a life was spared.

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[Kachina624]

Here is the news report of the incident which may answer some questions.

Interstate shutdown causes headaches for motorists https://news360.com/article/440175571

[Moonchilde]

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wrote:

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wrote:

“The good of the many outweighs the good of the few, or the one.”

Not always a popular thought or belief, but a part of our society.

Is the potentially lost life of one person worth more than the lives of potentially multiple others affected? Sitting in a vehicle unable to escape for that many hours - whether it’s 16 or 12 - can be deadly for diabetics and those with other serious chronic illnesses, the elderly, and the young.  There is a restroom issue for one thing. Trying not to go could cause severe issues.

Is it a reasonable assumption that every person needs to make sure, no matter their age or physical capabilities, that every single time they ever leave their home to do anything, they need to have with them in their car anything and everything they need for 24 hrs away from home? In case they should run into a scenario such as this?

There may be people on the way to the hospital, people having cancer treatments, sick toddlers, and many other situations. Is their “worth”, individually and collectively, all much less than the lone potential jumper? If so, why? 

The suicidal person is not less worthy, but neither are they more worthy. Extra effort can and should be made on behalf of these people, yes, agreed. But when the extra effort strangles the lives of the entire community for half a day, when do you reevaluate the situation and change tactics? Because really, the good of the many nearly always does outweigh the good of the few or the one. Regardless of where it originated, it’s the way all govts work, and most people feel, and it’s not a new idea.

The good of the many....

Although it may sound biblical or something from an ancient philosopher it is attributed to Star Trek, uttered by Mr. Spock. Although I love the Mr. Spock character, I don't think one should determine their moral compass by a TV show character.

The situation is tragic and I'm sure aggravating to lots of people. There is no easy solution, but consider this. If he had really jumped, the highway would still have been closed down for hours. They always are for a fatality. A car accident fatality would cause the same total shut down. 

We should be glad it wasn't closed because of a dead body and that a life was spared.

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Spock may have uttered a line that embodies a philosophy, but that doesn’t mean the philosophy was dreamed up by Star Trek writers. Both Bentham and Mill have been quoted as espousing the philosophy that Spock vocalized. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Stuart_Mill

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utilitarianism

[CalminHeart]

Traffic is always more important than a man's life.  not.

[Ms tyrion2]

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wrote:

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wrote:

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wrote:

“The good of the many outweighs the good of the few, or the one.”

Not always a popular thought or belief, but a part of our society.

Is the potentially lost life of one person worth more than the lives of potentially multiple others affected? Sitting in a vehicle unable to escape for that many hours - whether it’s 16 or 12 - can be deadly for diabetics and those with other serious chronic illnesses, the elderly, and the young.  There is a restroom issue for one thing. Trying not to go could cause severe issues.

Is it a reasonable assumption that every person needs to make sure, no matter their age or physical capabilities, that every single time they ever leave their home to do anything, they need to have with them in their car anything and everything they need for 24 hrs away from home? In case they should run into a scenario such as this?

There may be people on the way to the hospital, people having cancer treatments, sick toddlers, and many other situations. Is their “worth”, individually and collectively, all much less than the lone potential jumper? If so, why? 

The suicidal person is not less worthy, but neither are they more worthy. Extra effort can and should be made on behalf of these people, yes, agreed. But when the extra effort strangles the lives of the entire community for half a day, when do you reevaluate the situation and change tactics? Because really, the good of the many nearly always does outweigh the good of the few or the one. Regardless of where it originated, it’s the way all govts work, and most people feel, and it’s not a new idea.

The good of the many....

Although it may sound biblical or something from an ancient philosopher it is attributed to Star Trek, uttered by Mr. Spock. Although I love the Mr. Spock character, I don't think one should determine their moral compass by a TV show character.

The situation is tragic and I'm sure aggravating to lots of people. There is no easy solution, but consider this. If he had really jumped, the highway would still have been closed down for hours. They always are for a fatality. A car accident fatality would cause the same total shut down. 

We should be glad it wasn't closed because of a dead body and that a life was spared.

---

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Spock may have uttered a line that embodies a philosophy, but that doesn’t mean the philosophy was dreamed up by Star Trek writers. Both Bentham and Mill have been quoted as espousing the philosophy that Spock vocalized. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Stuart_Mill

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utilitarianism

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Spock uttered the exact line you quoted.

The others you mentioned had the same idea. That's where the writers of the episode got their inspiration.

I thought it was important to mention because your first two paragraphs quote Spock and go on to say it is "part of society".  It is part of pop culture. I am not certain it is a philosophy that everyone in a society accepts.