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04-27-2018 06:54 PM - edited 04-27-2018 07:02 PM
I don't know if anyone will agree, but I will say what I think about this issue, I and a number of people I know were assaulted by men in "professional" relations.
But. . . I was also occasionally greeted by inappropriate remarks and tentative physical contact. To me, _ it is not the same thing_.
Those things you decline,say, no don't do that again and it goes away.
I have a problem with a woman who would bring up tickling or groping decades later. Did the woman lack vocal cords and instincts to say no?
When "no" works and no law is broken, well, it's one thing to me; sexual assault and criminal offenses are, imo, another. And if the accusation is a matter of a criminal offtense, it's best to wait for the trial and the verdict.
I super don't like judging people by their accusers alone. That isn't the American way. It's not fair.
THANK YOU! That's exactly what I don't understand about so many cases of this. I use as an example if your boss asks you to cook the books and cheat on taxes, you are guilty. If you say no, and lose your job, you are not guilty. BUT if you go along you and guitly too.
A good friend of ours is a very good looking guy and managed a lot of people over his career, and had a lot of women come on to him. Since we know a lot of men and women who have worked with him, we have talked about that issue. He is a really good and honest man and his take is sure, he's had a lot of opportunities, but "it takes two." And he's talking about those instances mentioned above, NOT forced attention, just opportunity.
So it breaks my heart now about so many GOOD and DECENT men who could be accused by some vindictive person and people would believe it just because someone said it. And sorry, but I think we are about there. Two wrongs don't make a right. You can't go back and look at 20 years ago or more and lay blame on a whole gender of people and suspect everyone because of what some did. Many didn't do it. . .
04-27-2018 06:58 PM
Speak up when it happens. To join the bandwagon twenty years later doesn't seem all that courageous to me. Be a hero and protect others from the damage right away.
@Auntg That all sounds good and all....but when it is you....and it is your job....your income.... your word against someone so powerful....it may not be that easy at the time. Being a Hero is not that easy when it comes to predatory sexual conduct in the work place.
I don't think it is about being a hero. It is about putting yourself and your safety and your dignity before the job, the role, the money etc.
I am sure that if you take all the women this has happened to in say the last 30 years, there are going to be a percentage of them that could not speak out. They simply had no options, no where to go, or simply weren't strong enough to do it .
But I believe that percentage is small. There were and are many that just choose the job, the money, the fame, over making the hard choice to stand up and speak out. There was a trade off, a choice to be made, and they made it for whatever their reasons were. In doing so, they did themselves and future women a disservice.
We assume that every decision has a positive and a negative outcome, but truthfully, for many women both choices probably looked bad (to speak up or not). In not speaking out they did make a choice though.
04-27-2018 06:59 PM
04-27-2018 07:02 PM
And what if you're a single mother supporting kids? Quit your job, go on welfare, and get criticized for that? It's easy when you have two incomes, when you have never been in that situation, to say what other women should do. I don't do that-because while I have been harassed, I didn't have to take the job because I didn't have kids to support.
For all these movie and tv stories there are countless stories of non famous hard working women. The men who have power over them know that they depend in these jobs and they take advantage of that fact.
Nobody said it was going to be easy or fair. Some women might see no other options for themselves, but honestly, we've built a support system in the nation that would allow women in this position to move on from it, if they really wanted to. Fear isn't a good excuse for not doing the right thing.
04-27-2018 07:15 PM
This won't be popular but oh well.... There's a witch hunt out against men right now. I absolutely agree about a woman being raped but the sexual harrassments against men has gotten out of control. Women don't seem to be taking any blame for their actions. I'm so over their excuses of losing my job etc. Why do you think women dress the way they do? And please don't say because they can... of course they can but they want a man's attention. When they get it well then you know the rest of the story.
Again @Junebug54 not a popular opinion expressed here by you but I have to agree.
As a former retail manager, I witnessed over and over again, women that would encourage the, shall we call it 'attention', seek it out, participate in it, until they didn't want to anymore, then they cried 'harrassment'. They were willing participants often initiating the attention and consenting and enjoying the 'game'. But boy when they were done, the accusations flew.
I feel some men who don't deserve to be caught in the net of this fishing expedition are going to be hurt beyond repair (their careers etc.), and I don't know that they will have any recourse as they are destroyed.
04-27-2018 07:23 PM
In the 1990s I worked for a company where sexual-harassment was rampant and totally accepted by upper management. I was young and honestly, I did have a figure that attracted attention. I was touched inappropriately on multiple occasions. One manager likes to show me his pornography magazines. I did speak up - to the VP and the Pres. guess what? They didn’t care and laughed it off.
I really get angry reading posts that shame women for not doing something 20 years ago as if somehow it’s their fault. That’s garbage. The problem is that 20 years ago nobody listened. I had to leave MY JOB and go elsewhere. Pushing the issue would have only gotten me blackballed from an industry where people talked and mangers at different companies knew each other.
But you did the right thing. All many of us are saying is that more women should have done what you did. We know many weren't believed. And even if believed nothing was done. But not everything in life is beyond our taking some control of it, and this topic is one of those things. Your speaking up, even though ignored began a wave that has made the movement what it is becoming today. It may have seemed that it made no difference, but for every woman that did speak up, it was one more step to getting it stopped and changing the landscape.
04-27-2018 07:28 PM
What specifically is Tom Brokaw supposed to have done? She had no qualms about working for Roger Ailes at Fox and never said a word about him or O'Reilly. Now after all these years it's Brokaw????? As I said, what specifically is she claiming he did?
04-27-2018 07:41 PM
These days the issue has become confusing. No one should be harassed but what is harassment defined as today.
Is flirtation considered a no-no. What one calls flirting another calls it harassment, while another may think it was joking.Sexual bothersomes have always been around. Acting sexual has been called flirting.
Sexual encounters have been a no-no, but are there to do or not to do. The right to say no has always been there to say. To feel threatened that if you did not say no then you would not get the position you wanted, or be able to keep the job, a job for some that was much needed is an issue in itself. However many climbed the ladder because they did not say no and now to say it was intimidation and harassment seems a farce.
Being a victim is a cruel thing to go through in life but allowing yourself to be that victim and now wanting pay back just doesn't equal up. Rape is a different matter and today the lines are blurred and so very unfair to those who were raped.
The usage of drugs is never right. If you drink, and no drugs, you are responsible for behavior that will be shameful later.
The issue is out there and being confronted.
But, it is an oxymoron.
There is an expression, the older you get, the better it was, or, the older you get, the worse it was. What was is no more and no more accepted and defined as it was.
It is confusing and upsetting. I know where I stand but do not know where I should sit.
04-27-2018 07:43 PM
I think Brokaw has been exposed as another sleazy individual news anchor. Ive always said after Walter Cronkite left we would never have another anchor like him. I wouldn't be surprised if Peter Jennings was also a harasser. He always struck me as a sleazy individual. Charlie Rose was exposed about a year ago, same with Matt Lauer. In my opinion, once Cronkite left, the news industry became a den of sleaze. Cronkite must be rolling over in his grave right now as the once prestigious career as anchorman has now been disgraced by these men who couldn't hold a candle to Walter Cronkite. Drugs sex and alcohol seem to proliferate newsrooms today.
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