Toddler/Cruise Ship Trial, Plea Deal Offered - Page 6

Isobel Archer · ‎04-04-2015

@Lindsays Grandma wrote:
@Isobel Archer wrote:
@Porcelain wrote:
Some here are saying the grandfather is being prosecuted because the family sued the cruise line. A government's decision to prosecute someone for a crime should have nothing to do with a civil suit an individual's familiy might be bringing against a company. Either there is a crime to charge, or there is not. I certainly hope the criminal decision had nothing to do with a privately held company's concerns. Such a thing would be corrupt.
I think it is perfectly reasonable to charge him with negligent homicide. He caused the "accident" by his own actions. The child did not climb up there by herself. She died as a direct result of his irresponsibility.

And yet, it appears he is being offered a deal that lets him off with very little "punishment." I don't have a problem with that, but to claim that the cruise line is responsible for any of this - including his prosecution - is just wrong in my view.
@Isobel Archer ..The accident never would have happened if the cruise line didn't leave the window open. I cannot fathom why a window at that height would be open in the first place. I haven't seen, heard or read why it was open and if the reason is "for fresh air" that is not acceptable. Tough case all around.

No, the accident never would have happened if gramppa hadn't lifted her up to the window abd dropped her. This was not a child hazard. She couldn't have gotten there by herself.

Lion · ‎03-09-2010

@Lindsays Grandma wrote:
The accident never would have happened if the cruise line didn't leave the window open. I cannot fathom why a window at that height would be open in the first place. I haven't seen, heard or read why it was open and if the reason is "for fresh air" that is not acceptable. Tough case all around.

I agree, and feel the cruise line is definitely responsible. Windows at any level on a cruise ship should not be opened unless they at least have a big warning nearby, and the windows have safety coverings to prevent anyone from going through.

I also don't believe the family is suing the cruise line out of greed. I think they truly believe from the very start of this nightmare, that the cruise line is at fault. I would feel the same way, and would want some kind of justice. I also wouldn't want it to happen to any other child. Even an adult could go through an open window like that, someone drinking too much, or someone mentally unstable wanting to end their life.

I've heard of lawsuits for children falling through railings on upper levels of floors in building. Where the railings have spaces too big and children fall through.

**********
"The truth is like a lion. You don't have to defend it. Let it loose. It will defend itself."
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Be Vigilent

Georgiagrama · ‎03-19-2010

During my long life, I have seen two very similar cases. A child died - parents negiligence - suits were filed and won. Parents walked away missing a child, but they will never have to worry about money again.

I say this with sadness, but money appears to make guilt and loss easier for some.

NYC Susan · ‎03-13-2010

@Spurt wrote:
@Bird mama wrote:
I don't know how that defense is going to help him.

If he was so colorblind that he couldn't tell if a window was open or closed then it was even more negligent to lift the baby up to bang on the window.

@Bird mama

OR ....proves that perhaps the parents shouldn't have left the child in his care.....

That was my thought too. Taking a child that age on a cruise requires a great deal of very close supervision by a fully capable adult. Personally, I don't think I would take a toddler on a cruise because I wouldn't find it at all relaxing. But they chose to do so, and they chose to allow the grandfather to look after her on his own.

My heart breaks for all of them, but it seems they're trying to have it both ways. He was unable to determine if a window was open because of a medical condition, and yet it's the cruise line's fault? I've seen all the photos, and I'm not convinced the cruise line is completely without fault. But certainly the family has to take some responsiblity too.

NYC Susan · ‎03-13-2010

@depglass wrote:
I am astounded at the popular reaction to this tragic incident. You've never done anything that, except for the grace of God, might have ended tragically for one of your children? Under no circumstances that I can see would I have charged this gentleman. No, I have not watched the video, I can't bear to.

I don't think he should have been charged either. Certainly he didn't do it on purpose. It was a horrible, tragic accident. And he will already have a life sentence because he has to live with this. That's unimaginably heartbreaking. I'm sure he will never want to hold a child again. Putting him in jail will accomplish nothing.

However, a lot of the discussions on these forums have been about the lawsuit and the family putting 100% of the blame on the cruise line. It seems to me that the blame should be shared.

Btw, I don't believe video has been released. There is footage of various news anchors, etc watching the video, but as far as I know it has not been released to the public.

NYC Susan · ‎03-13-2010

@lovescats wrote:
I believe the story that there is a video and don't understand why the family doesn't think it is going to come out.
also I don't believe everyone is sorry for things that they do

There definitely is a video. That's not in disupte. The video itself has not been made public, but television stations have had access to it. If you Google, you'll find video of it being discussed by people who have seen it. In addition, there are other videos, taken by other passengers on the ship.

The family and their attorney are well aware of all of that.

cherry · ‎03-09-2010

No amount of money will bring this child back, so what is the point of suing? It is all about money...I have yet to hear this family accept one shred of responsibility for anything..The mother never told the grandfather not to do this...some claim the grandfather knew the window was open and had even stuck his head or hand through it ,before the fatal event happened

If he is not liable knowing the window was open, how does that make the cruise line liable? They certainly couldn't predict someone would be that careless with a tot...he is the only one this has happen to ,in all of the time they have been in operation, to my understanding...I won't say he wanted it to happen, as some claim, I don't think he was that cruel, despite their terrible loss, I have to say it is all about money

I feel very sorry for them, in other respects, but not that they want to be rewarded for their stupid behavior..If anyone would have tried to do this with a child of mine, I would have done anything in my power to rip my child away from them

Johnnyeager · ‎09-05-2014

Seems like a number of posters haven't grasped that the charge is Negligent Homicide.

No inference that he did it intentionally. Although I don't know exactly how the Puerto Rico statute is worded, to me this is a classic example of Negligent Homicide. Not manslaughter. Not homicide in the first degree or second degree The operative word is Negligent, which the grandfather most assuredly was in lifting the child up to her death. His negligent actions resulted in a death.

The window could have remained open for the entire duration of the cruise. No child would ever have fallen out without assistance.

Parental money grab indeed!

VaBelle35 · ‎03-10-2010

PR Law

Article 109.-Negligent Homicide.- Any person who causes the death of
another through negligence shall incur a misdemeanor, but shall receive the penalty established for a fourth degree felony.

When the death is caused while driving a motor vehicle under the influence of alcoholic beverages, controlled substances or with wanton disregard for the safety of others, or while aiming and shooting a firearm against an undefined target, the perpetrator shall incur a third degree felony.

He could have been charged with Negligence, but was not.

Article 24.- Negligence.- A crime is deemed to be committed negligently
when it is performed without intent, but imprudently, when not observing the standard care that a reasonably prudent person would have observed in the same situation as the author in order to prevent the result.

He could have been charged with Error, but was not.

Article 30.- Error.- Any person who commits an act in response to an essential error that excludes intent and negligence shall not be held liable. If the error is due to imprudence and it is expressly punished by law, said person shall be liable due to negligence. If the error falls under aggravating circumstances or a circumstance that warrants a more serious modality of the crime, it shall prevent the imposition of the highest punishment.

===================================
QVC Shopper - 1993

# IAMTEAMWEN

haddon9 · ‎03-09-2010

@NYC Susan wrote:
@Spurt wrote:
@Bird mama wrote:
I don't know how that defense is going to help him.

If he was so colorblind that he couldn't tell if a window was open or closed then it was even more negligent to lift the baby up to bang on the window.

@Bird mama

OR ....proves that perhaps the parents shouldn't have left the child in his care.....

That was my thought too. Taking a child that age on a cruise requires a great deal of very close supervision by a fully capable adult. Personally, I don't think I would take a toddler on a cruise because I wouldn't find it at all relaxing. But they chose to do so, and they chose to allow the grandfather to look after her on his own.

My heart breaks for all of them, but it seems they're trying to have it both ways. He was unable to determine if a window was open because of a medical condition, and yet it's the cruise line's fault? I've seen all the photos, and I'm not convinced the cruise line is completely without fault. But certainly the family has to take some responsiblity too.

@NYC Susan I have to agree with you! The first time I went on a cruise with the family my kids were teens and they were read the riot act before boarding...of course they were old enough that I didn't have to keep an eye on them constantly but I can remember thinking, there is NO WAY that I (I realize that plenty do) would ever take a young child on a vacation like that. How could it be relaxing when you have young children on board?

As far as the grandfather "thinking" the window was open, I don't believe it if he in fact stuck his head out first according to reporters who viewed the video. Plus one could have a similar accident inside a large ship too....many of the public areas indoors have soaring heights with railings, from huge dining rooms to open mall like areas. A child could fall to their death in such an area too.