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Honored Contributor
Posts: 20,019
Registered: ‎08-08-2010

Re: There seems to be the inability to discern the difference between


@Maudelynn wrote:

@Mominohio wrote:

@Maudelynn wrote:

From what I understand, citizens will not be able to travel freely between other European countries any longer.

I have a friend in the UK and she said there is a petition with half a million signatures to have a new vote since the "leave" vote was less than 60% and the turnout was under 75%.


 

That doesn't sound 'fair'. The referendum received much attention prior (world wide attention even) and voters had time to make their decisions.

 

I really don't like it when a group doesn't get the outcome of a vote that they had hoped for, so want a 'do over'. Life just isn't like that.

 

And I can't imagine the horror of those open borders, people coming and going without monitoring. Seems it has caused plenty of strife for them.


The petition is the same kind we have here in the US- where we petition the government and if it gets enough signatures it's reviewed.  This petition is for parliament, who reviews these afterr 100,000 signatures. My friend said a lot of the leave sentiment was due to having to take direction from faceless, nameless bureaucrats in Brussels. She didn't mention open borders, but many of her FB friends were nervous that they would have to leave the country because they are from other European countries. Kind of sad that they're afraid.


 

Thanks for the infor on the petition to parliament and the process.

 

And yes, the news today has been full of the Brussels connection. That faceless nameless entity that was increasing the burdens of rules and regulations to the point it was hurting their businesses.

 

I think this issue was multi faceted. Financial, sovereignty, borders, etc.

Honored Contributor
Posts: 20,570
Registered: ‎06-13-2012

Re: There seems to be the inability to discern the difference between

[ Edited ]

@Mominohio wrote:

@ZoetheCat wrote:

@JavaQueen wrote:

 

It's frightening to me on so many levels. Ecobomic security is a big deal. It makes everything else possible. Once that no longer exists, then comes the chaos. I was displaced by one recession and would hate to see another. I wouldn't want anyone to go through what I have.

 


You have expressed this so succinctly in my opinion.  Obviously, the people of Britain have a right to vote any way they choose.  We, too, will have that choice in November.  But I think it is obvious that this vote is frightening, not just to us but, more importantly, to Great Britain.  This vote is against economic security, plain and simple.  I understand that there is frustration and people feel that they are not being heard.  But, seriously, does it not seem like they are making it a whole lot worse?  I just do not see how this is going to make the life of an average UK resident better.


 

I certainly won't pretent to be an expert in this issue, but I do have a firm belief that sometimes things can't be fixed, and need to be discarded. There will be pain. There will be a fall before the rise/growth can continue. Perhaps this is the beginning of that for Europe?


That is a possibility for sure. It certainly can go either way- good or bad long-term-but what we do know is that things will be tough for awhile. How long? who knows. But it will be interesting (and a bit scary) to see how it all pans out.

 

How it pans out for the UK (and the future of the EU)  also depends on how the EU deals with the departure- the way they react and work with (or not) the UK to establish fair trade agreements, etc will make or break the outcome of this.

Esteemed Contributor
Posts: 7,385
Registered: ‎03-11-2010

Re: There seems to be the inability to discern the difference between

JMO......too early to know if this is wonderful or a disaster. Will be interesting to see it play out.

Wrong is still wrong just because you benefited from it.
Trusted Contributor
Posts: 1,219
Registered: ‎02-20-2016

Re: There seems to be the inability to discern the difference between

What was being discussed and was removed last night was a vote happening across the UK to determine whether or not the country would leave the European Union.  It was a hotly contested political issue which divided the nation. It had nothing to do with their economy, it had everything to do with the country's desire to depart the union in order to have autonomy when it comes to law-making.  The vote was preceded by public, political debates.  The main issue was not the economy, it was immigration.  The people of England who voted to leave the union did so because they wanted to close their borders to Muslim immigrants.  Yes, the outcome of the vote had an effect on the world economy, but that's not what the vote was about.  If you want to tell me that an entire nation voting on a major political agenda is not political, then you don't really understand the definition of politics.  Beth was correct, and she did her job.  I don't care if it was contentious.  It's not allowed.

Esteemed Contributor
Posts: 6,287
Registered: ‎01-24-2013

Re: There seems to be the inability to discern the difference between


@chrystaltree wrote:

Sometimes it's just one comment, sometimes just one complaint.  It doesn't take much for them to shut a thread down. 


`````````````````````````````````````````````

So delete the one complaint and leave the others.

 

Easy for a moderator to do.

Super Contributor
Posts: 452
Registered: ‎11-30-2014

Re: There seems to be the inability to discern the difference between


@Mominohio wrote:

@ZoetheCat wrote:

@JavaQueen wrote:

 

It's frightening to me on so many levels. Ecobomic security is a big deal. It makes everything else possible. Once that no longer exists, then comes the chaos. I was displaced by one recession and would hate to see another. I wouldn't want anyone to go through what I have.

 


You have expressed this so succinctly in my opinion.  Obviously, the people of Britain have a right to vote any way they choose.  We, too, will have that choice in November.  But I think it is obvious that this vote is frightening, not just to us but, more importantly, to Great Britain.  This vote is against economic security, plain and simple.  I understand that there is frustration and people feel that they are not being heard.  But, seriously, does it not seem like they are making it a whole lot worse?  I just do not see how this is going to make the life of an average UK resident better.


 

I certainly won't pretent to be an expert in this issue, but I do have a firm belief that sometimes things can't be fixed, and need to be discarded. There will be pain. There will be a fall before the rise/growth can continue. Perhaps this is the beginning of that for Europe?


I hear what you are saying.  Sometimes it takes a long time for something to get better.  But I've read so many reports today which indicate that older Brits voted to leave, while their children (or at least the younger generation) voted to stay.  I have to ask, did these older Brits vote against the interests of their children?  I just believe that for the foreseeable future, Britain is in for a lot of pain.

Honored Contributor
Posts: 20,019
Registered: ‎08-08-2010

Re: There seems to be the inability to discern the difference between


@ZoetheCat wrote:

@Mominohio wrote:

@ZoetheCat wrote:

@MyGirlsMom wrote:

Another area of concern is science and medicine.  The UK worked closely with other EU nations on scientific research and studies because of 'freedoms.'  Within the next two years, things will change and these same 'freedoms' won't be so easy.  Europe is on the cutting edge when it comes to Cancer research.


Again, I think it's a matter of "cutting off your nose to spite your face" as my mother always said.  There are so many repurcussions to this.  I understand the frustration.  But I think this vote is appealing to fear as opposed to "our better angels" to quote Abe Lincoln.


 

But let me offer up the 'fear factor' of the other side, that said basically we will have disaster if we leave.

 

I think in most cases, the fear card is played by both sides.

 

I see that there were just as many repercussions to leave the status quo, and it seems to me they people were looking to  get back their sovereignty. Not a bad thing in my opinion.


I truly do understand what you are saying and I do not want to get this thread poofed.  But the fact is, we (and Britain) live in a global economy.  No matter who you vote for, whether here, in Britain, or anywhere else, is going to change that.  The old jobs are not coming back.  No amount of "Brexit" is going to change that.  I think this is what I find so frustrating about the argument.  I feel like the people in power who favor this kind of "sovereignty" know that what they are proposing is not sustainable.  It's just politics to further their own very narrow agenda.


 

We definintely aren't going to rewind the global economy, but especially in the EU, they have lost much of their autonomy and sovereignty to the larger group. Every nation, in my opinon should be able to govern themselves, choose their destiny and not have to hold up the weak in their union if they choose not to or don't find value in doing so.

 

All nations are not the same, the peoples and cultures withing their borders vary, and it doesn't always work to have a 'one size fits all' mentality or we are all alike view of the world and they way they deal with things.

 

And I do think that some members of the EU are tired of some of the countries that they have to worry about bailing out.

Valued Contributor
Posts: 773
Registered: ‎05-08-2015

Re: There seems to be the inability to discern the difference between

[ Edited ]

@RazorSharp wrote:

What was being discussed and was removed last night was a vote happening across the UK to determine whether or not the country would leave the European Union.  It was a hotly contested political issue which divided the nation. It had nothing to do with their economy, it had everything to do with the country's desire to depart the union in order to have autonomy when it comes to law-making.  The vote was preceded by public, political debates.  The main issue was not the economy, it was immigration.  The people of England who voted to leave the union did so because they wanted to close their borders to Muslim immigrants.  Yes, the outcome of the vote had an effect on the world economy, but that's not what the vote was about.  If you want to tell me that an entire nation voting on a major political agenda is not political, then you don't really understand the definition of politics.  Beth was correct, and she did her job.  I don't care if it was contentious.  It's not allowed.


Let's face it, everything is political.  Any conversation having to do with current events can be whittled down to politics. 

 

ETA: I believe the immigration issue was only part of the impetus.

You have sacrificed nothing and no one.
Esteemed Contributor
Posts: 7,385
Registered: ‎03-11-2010

Re: There seems to be the inability to discern the difference between


@ZoetheCat wrote:

@Mominohio wrote:

@ZoetheCat wrote:

@JavaQueen wrote:

 

It's frightening to me on so many levels. Ecobomic security is a big deal. It makes everything else possible. Once that no longer exists, then comes the chaos. I was displaced by one recession and would hate to see another. I wouldn't want anyone to go through what I have.

 


You have expressed this so succinctly in my opinion.  Obviously, the people of Britain have a right to vote any way they choose.  We, too, will have that choice in November.  But I think it is obvious that this vote is frightening, not just to us but, more importantly, to Great Britain.  This vote is against economic security, plain and simple.  I understand that there is frustration and people feel that they are not being heard.  But, seriously, does it not seem like they are making it a whole lot worse?  I just do not see how this is going to make the life of an average UK resident better.


 

I certainly won't pretent to be an expert in this issue, but I do have a firm belief that sometimes things can't be fixed, and need to be discarded. There will be pain. There will be a fall before the rise/growth can continue. Perhaps this is the beginning of that for Europe?


I hear what you are saying.  Sometimes it takes a long time for something to get better.  But I've read so many reports today which indicate that older Brits voted to leave, while their children (or at least the younger generation) voted to stay.  I have to ask, did these older Brits vote against the interests of their children?  I just believe that for the foreseeable future, Britain is in for a lot of pain.


------------

Or did the children vote against the interest of their parents? Harsh as it to say sometimes it gets worse before it gets better. I hope this isn't the case.

Wrong is still wrong just because you benefited from it.
Esteemed Contributor
Posts: 5,758
Registered: ‎03-09-2010

Re: There seems to be the inability to discern the difference between

@RazorSharp  

 

I like you and usually agree with your posts but on this issue, I respectfully disagree.  Early this am, many of us were caught up with the vote in the UK, not really believing what were seeing.  CNBC showed the markets responding in Asia as well as DOW futures (down 717 points) and we were frightened.  It was akin to watching a train crash. So surreal.

Keep Your Face To The Sunshine and You Will Not See The Shadow