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Re: The facts, ma'am, only the facts...JonBenet


@goldensrbest wrote:

@ImadickensWhy do we need yet another thread about this?


I wondered about that, too. I wrote it so instead of all the he said she said going around, I tried to write facts that were known. Then, if someone wants to take issue, it's here in black and white. I tried to write only citeable facts. I'm human (and old, so my grand says😉) so I may have gotten something wrong. If so, I will correct it.

Never underestimate the power of kindness.
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Re: The facts, ma'am, only the facts...JonBenet


Sister Golden Hair wrote:

indoor kitty wrote:

Children are killed every day in this country, but this case gets all of this attention after all of these years. Why ? Is it just because she was blond and pretty ??


@indoor kitty And from a very wealthy family.


 

This is an unfortunate reality - little white girls, and especially when they are from a considered 'prominent' family, will get mega attention whereas children/adults of color will not get much attention at all.

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Re: The facts, ma'am, only the facts...JonBenet

@chrystaltree I agree with you, to a point. I think other facts keep this going, like how it appears the family name got them off and how it looked to some like Patsy was dressing her up to be a "Lolita". My sincerest prayers are no child will ever be hurt like this, or any way, ever again!

Never underestimate the power of kindness.
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Re: The facts, ma'am, only the facts...JonBenet

@Imadickens 

 

I appreciate your efforts!  😊 When discussing this case, people's opinions sometimes get passed off as fact (and facts passed off as opinions), so I think it's a good idea to try to differentiate the two.

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Re: The facts, ma'am, only the facts...JonBenet

[ Edited ]

 

         I've read a couple of the threads about this case and I did watch the A&E documentary.   This is not directed at you, @Imadickens, in particular, it's a general comment about the threads, the websites, and the various tv shows.   My problem with any "facts" posted on the various threads is that unless there's a source listed with each one it's hard to know if the info is completely accurate or if it might've been hearsay (such as one of the parents doing or saying something and another person trying to quote what they heard them say).   At least with a source, we can go there and see if the words were actually said, or if certain details were actually documented to be true.    I saw a couple of remarks in another thread that got my interest and when I looked online at transcripts of the actual people talking the info in the thread here wasn't accurate.    But if someone reading the thread didn't look it up, they wouldn't know this.   

 

          I haven't followed the case in depth.    I do know people in LE,  I feel strongly that the overwhelming majority of them are dedicated, honest, and good people.   I've always been troubled by the mistakes made early on, however, and I think most people are aware that sometimes there are pressures to target one or two suspects and "solve" a case, and also that not every local LE agency is practiced in investigating such dreadful criminal cases.    Personally, I do not feel the parents killed their daughter.   I also don't believe all these books and documentaries will solve anything...  I think all this hype is just a marketing tool, being treated as entertainment, and that makes me sad.    With luck, new technology may eventually be the key.    I do feel sick at heart that this turned into such a media circus, has been hurtful to so many, other similar cases never have been brought to such scrutiny, and a dear, beautiful young soul passed away so early and in such a horrible way.

 

 

Few things reveal your intellect and your generosity of spirit—the parallel powers of your heart and mind—better than how you give feedback.~Maria Popova
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Re: The facts, ma'am, only the facts...JonBenet


@Imadickens wrote:

@Goldengate8361 wrote:

@muttmom

"Fact: the Ramsey's know"? That's not a fact; that's speculation on your part. There is no evidence for your assertion whatsover.


I don't remember writing that phrase. Please tell me where in my post it is and I will correct it! Thanks!


 

@Imadickens

 

@You didn't use that phrase...muttmom used it...see the @ notification to muttmom that golden used.  Heart

 

~~~ I call dibs on the popcorn concession!! ~~~
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Re: The facts, ma'am, only the facts...JonBenet


@seaBreeze wrote:

Fascinating.  Apparently DNA cleared the parents...but there is so much room for error....who knows.

 

My biggest question is:   The white blanket JonBenet was wrapped in .... why would an outside intruder take the time to look inside a dryer to find a blanket?


The housekeeper gave that evidence. She thinks Patsy did it because she's the only one who knew it was in the dryer besides the housekeeper.  I also think that Burke hit Jonbenet first and that's how the Ramsey's were able to say they didn't do it. You know what bothers me?  That Patsy said in an interview that she would never kill or harm THAT child.  Who talks like that about her baby? 

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Re: The facts, ma'am, only the facts...JonBenet

[ Edited ]

@Imadickens wrote:

I'll go on...

 

Fact: when Det. Arendt suggested they check for anything unusual the two men went to the basement. John told friend to check "over there" while John looked in the Wine cellar. John screamed then went into wine cellar, telling friend who saw him go in the room before he turned on the light that she was found! John carried her stiff body upstairs holding her away from his body. After placing her on floor at detectives order he asked if she were dead. The detective said yes and carried her into living room and placed her under the Christmas tree! (Sorry, that's gruesome to me!) The detective had to tell John to get Patsy, who heard the yelling but stayed put! She threw herself on JB and lay there sobbing. 

 

Fact: before John found the body, Burke was ushered off to the friend's home. 

 

Fact: John told his pilot to ready the plane to take family out of state that day. This is before JB had been autopsied or buried!

 

 

Fact: when police went to talk to The Ramseys who were also now at the friend's home, they "lawyered up". The story about how this came about changed over time. The Ramseys did not grant an interview to PD for months after the murder. Even then, they had been given access to all evidence that was collected and had been given the questions in advance! The lawyers were present for the interview! Burke only spoke to a social worker, who reported his behavior was consistent with a child hiding something, and acted inappropriately when asked about any sexual behavior and JB. He took the game board they were using and placed it on his head and then twirled it on his head. He admitted he knew what had happened to JB and said everyone would know soon, too! This was found on the video taped meeting!

 

Fact: the coroner botched the autopsy by using unclean items during the autopsy. There was nothing notable under her nails due to dirty clippers. Partially digested pineapple was found, eaten about 2 hours prior to death. Previous belief she died from strangulation was wrong. A large break in her scull, probably from being hit with a large, hard item, like a big, metal flashlight (similar to one sitting on the kitchen counter. The family could not say if it was theirs or not, yet no officer reported leaving one behind!) Blood between the scull and scalp proved that although she would have died from the blow, she was still alive for a while. The strangulation is what killed her. The pupils confirmed this as did bleeding or absence of it in other organs. Items tested provided little info. There was trace DNA in her underwear...under the elastic waistband and in the seam in the crotch. It is possible she had undergone continuing molestation as the hymen was atrophied and there was vaginal scarring. The pediatrician said he did not find evidence of prior abuse stating he assumes every child is being abused due to wide spread epidemic of abuse. That's why he's sure he looked for it. JB was seen many times for vaginitis, tho he said little girls with vaginitis is commonplace.

 

Fact: Patsy's sister was allowed back in the house with PD supervision to get things needed for the funeral in Atlanta. John insisted she get his golf bag! She was not allowed down there.

 

Fact: at the funeral, Burke ran around and played with a friend who went to Atlanta with the family. The boy's mother went along to watch the boys. The only thing Burke did to acknowledge his sister was touch the coffin once. Then the boys ran around in the graveyard. Burke had issues with defficating in JB's room, one smearing feces on a box of chocolates in her room!

 

There are more facts, but these are the important ones, I think. If I missed any, let me know. If you think I misrepresented anything I'll research it and cite my source.

 

 ************  I am not saying you are wrong on all your facts.  I haven't followed this story for years.  It is statements like I bolded in your sentences above that make me doubt "the facts".  People often don't act "normal" and are confused and act out in odd ways when they have been through a trauma.  Their brains become scrambled....so to speak..... so it is not hard to see why some things they said, at the time, might be seen more clearly at a later date or they really can't remember it quite as it happened (again....due to being traumatized).

 

I don't know if the the brother or the parents are guilty or not guilty..... but to place the actions of a child as evidence of guilt because "the only thing he did to acknowledge his sisters death was touch the coffin.....(once) and the fact that he and another boy ran around the grave yard after that"....is exactly why I don't follow these "facts". Any good psychologist would know that that would not be anything out of the ordinary and quite normal behavior for a boy of his age.  

 

If someone is guilty let him (or her) be judged on proof not pure speculation and popular opinion. 

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Re: The facts, ma'am, only the facts...JonBenet

I often wonder how JB's and Patsy's reunion in the afterlife unfolded.  We'll never know.

If your face brightens when you meet a friend, you have struck gold. - unknown
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Re: The facts, ma'am, only the facts...JonBenet

@jubilant You are right, everyone reacts to tragedy differently and children hopefully , have little experience from which to draw. I had not intended to draw a conclusion with any of the facts I gave. I added that because all of the books I read gave it more than a brief mention so I figured it had a bit of importance. Plus, the social worker who conducted the interview as well as other Psychiatrists who viewed it, felt that his behavior was not normal. I think it was more important that he claimed he knew what happened to her and soon everyone else would, too!

Never underestimate the power of kindness.