Community Chat

[SuiGeneris]

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@Disneylandfan wrote:

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@chickenbutt wrote:

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@SuiGeneris wrote:

The obvious one for me is "ask."

It's not . . . "aks" or "ax"

It's . . . "asssk" [intentional emphasis on the "s"]

Another one is the pronunciation of the state in which I spent the first 20 years of my life [born and raised, so to speak].

It's Missouree or "Mizz er EE," not Missouruh or "Mizz er ah." 

When I hear someone say Missourah, it's like fingernails on a blackboard, to me. 

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I actually thought (obviously ignorantly) that Missourah was what the people FROM there called it.  I'm a West Coast chicken but I always heard it as Missouree (accent on the middle syllable). 

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My parents grew up in Missouri.  My mom said Missourah and so did all the family when talking with family or people from their home state.  When speaking with someone not from the state she said Mizzeree. 

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Although I am from Missouri, I never heard anyone pronounce it any other way than Mizz UR ee.  It wasn't until I left the state that I heard others pronounce it differently.  I always thought they were merely mispronouncing it, and, out of politeness, didn't correct them.

Later, I did hear a local news story on the two pronunciations.  I think it was stated that people from a certain geographical area of Missouri north of Kansas City were the ones responsible for the mutation [?] into Mizz UR ah.

However! I made a rather lengthy post on page 4 of this thread [post #96], detailing the U.S. states with names of Native American derivation. 

Here is the entry for Missouri:

Missouri – named for the Missouri tribe, whose name comes from Illinois mihsoori, "dugout canoe".

As you can see, the Native Americans were the ones who originally called my home state Mih SOOR i, not Mih SOOR ah.  So, I think I will respect the pronunciation of my forebears, since my great-grandmother was a Cherokee Indian. 

[Disneylandfan]

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@SuiGeneris wrote:

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@Disneylandfan wrote:

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@chickenbutt wrote:

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@SuiGeneris wrote:

The obvious one for me is "ask."

It's not . . . "aks" or "ax"

It's . . . "asssk" [intentional emphasis on the "s"]

Another one is the pronunciation of the state in which I spent the first 20 years of my life [born and raised, so to speak].

It's Missouree or "Mizz er EE," not Missouruh or "Mizz er ah." 

When I hear someone say Missourah, it's like fingernails on a blackboard, to me. 

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I actually thought (obviously ignorantly) that Missourah was what the people FROM there called it.  I'm a West Coast chicken but I always heard it as Missouree (accent on the middle syllable). 

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My parents grew up in Missouri.  My mom said Missourah and so did all the family when talking with family or people from their home state.  When speaking with someone not from the state she said Mizzeree. 

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Although I am from Missouri, I never heard anyone pronounce it any other way than Mizz UR ee.  It wasn't until I left the state that I heard others pronounce it differently.  I always thought they were merely mispronouncing it, and, out of politeness, didn't correct them.

Later, I did hear a local news story on the two pronunciations.  I think it was stated that people from a certain geographical area of Missouri north of Kansas City were the ones responsible for the mutation [?] into Mizz UR ah.

However! I made a rather lengthy post on page 4 of this thread [post #96], detailing the U.S. states with names of Native American derivation. 

Here is the entry for Missouri:

Missouri – named for the Missouri tribe, whose name comes from Illinois mihsoori, "dugout canoe".

As you can see, the Native Americans were the ones who originally called my home state Mih SOOR i, not Mih SOOR ah.  So, I think I will respect the pronunciation of my forebears, since my great-grandmother was a Cherokee Indian. 

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Don't know why she said it that way with family but my parents and extended family are originally from Poplar Bluff, Sikeston, St. Louis and LIttle Rock AR.  I'm a California girl so many words pronounced outside my state seem odd.

[sallybusky]

SulGeneris:  Love the graph!  I so appreciate everyone's assistance (and research!) with my question.  As I try to follow the rules of grammar, I'll probably continue to say 'a historic' but I do not think 'an historic' sounds awkward at all.  Some errors make my skin crawl; on the other hand there are several that don't sound too bad to me.  And some?  If we say it real fast no one will know either way (helloooo February)!

my favorite quote from Groucho Marx (I think):

"Outside a dog, a book is man's best friend.  Inside a dog it's too dark to read."  (I'm going to post this now, and look it up later.)

[novamc1]

one more bit of  food for grammatical and pronunciation thought.......

When you travel, do you stay in "an hotel", or "a hotel"?

Whatever sounds good and is understandable works the best, when the goal is communicating with others (without being too annoying or rattling too many cages).

[Moonchilde]

I am one of those California natives who doesn't think we have a native accent, but oddly, throughout my life, I've been told by several different people from other states and areas (not just the south) that they know a Californian by how "fast" we speak. I don't get or hear that, but maybe ?

[Cakers3]

I add the "r" sound to the endings of many words and take the "r" sound away in others.

It's just the way we "tawk" in MA.  And that will never change no matter where I live.  LOL

[Madisson]

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@SuiGeneris wrote:

The obvious one for me is "ask."

It's not . . . "aks" or "ax"

It's . . . "asssk" [intentional emphasis on the "s"]

(snipped)

I know what you are saying about "ask." However, I read a dictionary pronunciation of it once (wish I could remember which one), and it said that "ax" is acceptable because it is an ethnic pronunciation.

We are always told that the correct pronunciation of a city is the way the natives of the city pronounce it. I think the same thing is true with cultural/ethnic pronunciations. I think ethnic pronunciations should be a rather taboo topic...like politics and religion. I don't expect you to agree, but it is JMO.

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[Cakers3]

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@SuiGeneris wrote:

With all the posts about South Dakota, Texas, Arkansas, Kansas, Missouri [me] and other U.S. states, it made me think about something I've wondered about, but never looked up until today.

How many U.S. states' names have their origin in a Native American language?

• Alabama – Named for the Alibamu, a tribe whose name derives from a Choctaw phrase meaning "thicket-clearers" or "plant-cutters" (from albah, "(medicinal) plants", and amo, "to clear"). The modern Choctaw name for the tribe is Albaamu.
• Alaska – from Aleut alaxsxaq, "the mainland" (literally "the object towards which the action of the sea is directed").
• Arizona – may be from O'odham ali ṣona-g, "having a little spring", though it may come from Basque: aritz zonak ("Good oaks").
• Arkansas – from the Illinois rendering of the tribal autonym kką:ze (see Kansas, below), which the Miami and Illinois used to refer to the Quapaw.
• Connecticut – from some Eastern Algonquian language of southern New England (perhaps Mahican), meaning "at the long tidal river" (after the Connecticut River). The name reflects Proto-Eastern-Algonquian *kwən-, "long"; *-əhtəkw, "tidal river"; and *-ənk, the locative suffix
• Hawaii - Hawaiian language name Hawaiʻi - from Hawaiki, legendary homeland of the Polynesians. Hawaiki is believed to mean "place of the gods" [I'm not sure why Wikipedia included this one?]
• Idaho – may be from Plains Apache ídaahę́, "enemy", used to refer to the Comanches, or it may have been an invented word.
• Illinois – from the French rendering of an Algonquian (perhaps Miami) word apparently meaning "s/he speaks normally" (c.f. Miami ilenweewa), from Proto-Algonquian *elen-, "ordinary" + -wē, "to speak", referring to the Illiniwek.
• Iowa – from Dakota ayúxba or ayuxwe, via French Aiouez.
• Kansas – from the autonym kką:ze.
• Kentucky – from an Iroquoian word meaning "at the meadow" or "on the prairie" (c.f. Seneca gëdá’geh [kẽtaʔkeh], "at the field").
• Massachusetts – from an Algonquian language of southern New England, and apparently means "near the small big mountain", usually identified as Great Blue Hill on the border of Milton and Canton, Massachusetts (c.f. the Narragansett name Massachusêuck).
• Michigan – from Ottawa mishigami, "large water" or "large lake".
• Minnesota – from Dakota mni-sota, "turbid water".
• Mississippi – from an Algonquian language, probably Ojibwe, meaning "big river" (Ojibwe misiziibi).
• Missouri – named for the Missouri tribe, whose name comes from Illinois mihsoori, "dugout canoe".
• Nebraska – from Chiwere ñįbraske, "flattened water".
• New Mexico – the name "Mexico" comes from Nahuatl Mēxihco, of unknown derivation.
• North and South Dakota – dakhóta comes from the Sioux word for "friend" or "ally".
• Ohio – from Seneca ohi:yo’, "beautiful river".
• Oklahoma – invented by Chief Allen Wright as a rough translation of "Indian Territory"; in Choctaw, okla means "people", "tribe", or "nation", and homa- means "red", thus: "Red people".
• Tennessee – Derived from the name of a Cherokee village, Tanasi, whose etymology is unknown.
• Texas – ultimately from Caddo táyshaʔ, "friend".
• Utah – from a language of one of the Ute tribe's neighbors, such as Western Apache yúdah, "high up".
• Wisconsin – originally "Mescousing", from an Algonquian language, though the source and meaning is not entirely clear; most likely from the Miami word Meskonsing meaning "it lies red" (c.f. Ojibwe miskosin).
• Wyoming – from Munsee Delaware xwé:wamənk, "at the big river flat".

This list is just state names; think of all the lakes, rivers, moutains, and other terrestrial features that have Native American names, e.g., Minnetonka, Kennebunk[port], Okefenokee, Potomac, etc.

There are also many American cities with Indian names, e.g., Niagara, Manhattan, Chicago, Milwaukee, Chesapeake, etc.

[This is of interest to me because my great-grandmother on my father's side of the family was a Native American (Cherokee).]

ETA: The explanation of the derivation of the name "Missouri" proves [to me] which one is the correct pronunciation; it is derived from mihsoori, "dugout canoe" [note the "i," not "a" at the end of the word].

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Fun facts.  Thank you!

[SuiGeneris]

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@Madisson wrote:

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@SuiGeneris wrote:

The obvious one for me is "ask."

It's not . . . "aks" or "ax"

It's . . . "asssk" [intentional emphasis on the "s"]

(snipped)

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I know what you are saying about "ask." However, I read a dictionary pronunciation of it once (wish I could remember which one), and it said that "ax" is acceptable because it is a cultural pronunciation.

We are always told that the correct pronunciation of a city is the way the natives of the city pronounce it. I think the same thing is true with cultural pronunciations. I think cultural pronunciations should be a rather taboo topic...like politics and religion. I don't expect you to agree, but it is JMO.

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If you read the entire thread, you will see it is rife with "cultural pronunciations," starting with the OP's post about PEE can . . . or  . . . pe CAHN.  The way one says "pecan" is very much a cultural or regional distinction.

The unique phrasing of the sentence, "It don't make me no nevermind" was also mentioned on this thread, another cultural/regional linguistic phenomenon, peculiar to certain areas of the country.

There were other mentions of words and phrases that have been derived from one's culture or geographical location within this country on this thread.

However, you chose to single out my post to comment on; therefore, I will reveal the origin of my thoughts as to the pronunciation of the word "ask."

When I wrote my post I was thinking of a very humorous episode of "Everybody Loves Raymond," wherein he was selected to be a guest on a television sports chat show, and was practicing his dialogue with Debra, his wife.  He used the word, "axe" instead of "ask" in one of his sentences, and she corrected him.  He tried over and over to say it correctly and was unable to consistently pronounce the word correctly.  Here's part of the dialogue:

• Ray: You're asking me. -Yeah. What are you doing? I'm axing you.

• Debra:  Yeah, ask. Sometimes you say.... -Ax.

• Ray:  Ax, oh, man!

• Debra:  No, honey, come on. You just got to practice those words.

The hallmark of the show "Everybody Loves Raymond" is the fact that all the writers, directors, producers and actors would sit around a large table and talk about things that happened to them in the course of their everyday lives.  The writers would then take those everyday experiences and make a show about them.  I assume that's where the idea for the "Ray's on TV" episode originated.

As to Ray Romano's "culture" . . . He is Italian American, born and raised in Queens.  You'll have to ask him if he feels that his pronunciation of the word "ask" is a "taboo" topic. 

JMO/YMMV

[Tenners]

As long as you included anyways...What drives me crazy is when someone writes " suppose to" or "use to" instead of supposed to and used to. Another thing that gets me is how many times people make nouns plural by adding "apostrophe S". That's how you make it "possessive", folks! Here is another one... Your welcome. You're welcome. It's a contraction.