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Respected Contributor
Posts: 4,426
Registered: ‎03-10-2010

Re: The Economic Side of Natural Disasters


@CrazyDaisy wrote:

@pitdakota wrote:

@Noel7 wrote:

@Lipstickdiva wrote:


 



The problem with that is there are too many different points of view.

 

Not ALL scientists believe in climate change or global warming.  So some people are following the advice of a scientist.  But not with the same belief as others.

 

Not all doctors would give the same advice.  That's why people go for second or even third opinions.  So most people do follow a doctor's advice but again, that doctor's advice may be different from your advice so who is right?

 

And again, all financial experts don't agree on the same manner of investments, etc. 


 

@Lipstickdiva

 

97% of the world's leading scientists in the field know global warming has been happening for some time now.

 

Every civilized country in the world is working with the group dedicated to figuring out what can be done.  There is no question about it.  There really are not too many points of view on this.  They are in agreement.

 


_____________________________________________________

 

@Noel, lol we posted at about the same time.  So true.  It is not just that natural disasters have always occurred.   Many people don't understand the evolvement of history that when many of those other signficant natural disasters occurred in past history, they were also tied to increased emissions such as a huge volcanic eruption which impacted the climate. 

 

The issue of climate change is very complex and I think many people don't understand or have not taken the time to really understand other periods in history and events that impacted the climate at that time.  It is just easier to say that there have always been natural disasters.

 

The irony is that there is quite a bit of potential positive economic growth from accepting the science of climate change. 


I really don't understane why you want to attach others who do not share your opinion.  Does it make you feel superior?  Why would you assume that others are not just as knowledgable as you, just have come to different conclusion.  Happens everyday


She is talking about proven facts not her personal opinion. If others understood that they would not be denying the facts.

Honored Contributor
Posts: 20,019
Registered: ‎08-08-2010

Re: The Economic Side of Natural Disasters


@CrazyDaisy wrote:

@AngusandBuddhasMom wrote:

The talk of building codes come as if this is new or the local cities or towns don't have them  for the most part they do. It is up to them to be enforced and to follow the recommendations of the engineering inspectors who are telling them.  What needs to be done.

 

Case in point a very expensive and popular restaurant here in NYC that sits along Central Park has failed building codes for years to the point that it got so expensive for them they had to close. What were they consistently failing? No sprinklers in the ancient wood ceilings of their dining rooms. Why? Because the cost to put them in and get them up to code would be very expensive. Finally the cost of human life became to much they shut down before it became public with a "we will be opening in the spring" They had to literally gut the place. So yes the city and the commercial re-insurance provider tries to get the buildings up to code but if the owners are unwilling then the potential for catastrophic events is greater.

 

Same thing happens in cities that allow sub standard building in areas that have historical flooding. 


The City of New Orleans is below sea level, yet they are rebuildong. 


 

This is a big part of the problem. Areas that really aren't fit for human habitation in relation to the weather that destroys it on some kind of regular basis, is constantly being built, expanded and rebuilt. 

 

People who choose to live in areas where this happens again and again need to bear the brunt of the financial responsibility for doing so. 

 

 

Esteemed Contributor
Posts: 5,892
Registered: ‎03-20-2010

Re: The Economic Side of Natural Disasters


@AngusandBuddhasMom wrote:

@CrazyDaisy wrote:

@pitdakota wrote:

@Noel7 wrote:

@Lipstickdiva wrote:


 



The problem with that is there are too many different points of view.

 

Not ALL scientists believe in climate change or global warming.  So some people are following the advice of a scientist.  But not with the same belief as others.

 

Not all doctors would give the same advice.  That's why people go for second or even third opinions.  So most people do follow a doctor's advice but again, that doctor's advice may be different from your advice so who is right?

 

And again, all financial experts don't agree on the same manner of investments, etc. 


 

@Lipstickdiva

 

97% of the world's leading scientists in the field know global warming has been happening for some time now.

 

Every civilized country in the world is working with the group dedicated to figuring out what can be done.  There is no question about it.  There really are not too many points of view on this.  They are in agreement.

 


_____________________________________________________

 

@Noel, lol we posted at about the same time.  So true.  It is not just that natural disasters have always occurred.   Many people don't understand the evolvement of history that when many of those other signficant natural disasters occurred in past history, they were also tied to increased emissions such as a huge volcanic eruption which impacted the climate. 

 

The issue of climate change is very complex and I think many people don't understand or have not taken the time to really understand other periods in history and events that impacted the climate at that time.  It is just easier to say that there have always been natural disasters.

 

The irony is that there is quite a bit of potential positive economic growth from accepting the science of climate change. 


I really don't understane why you want to attach others who do not share your opinion.  Does it make you feel superior?  Why would you assume that others are not just as knowledgable as you, just have come to different conclusion.  Happens everyday


She is talking about proven facts not her personal opinion. If others understood that they would not be denying the facts.


Nothing is PROVEN.  It is conjecture based upon current observations.  Making conclusion based upon that is opinions.

Someday, when scientists discover the center of the Universe....some people will be disappointed it is not them.
Respected Contributor
Posts: 4,426
Registered: ‎03-10-2010

Re: The Economic Side of Natural Disasters


@Mominohio wrote:

@CrazyDaisy wrote:

@AngusandBuddhasMom wrote:

The talk of building codes come as if this is new or the local cities or towns don't have them  for the most part they do. It is up to them to be enforced and to follow the recommendations of the engineering inspectors who are telling them.  What needs to be done.

 

Case in point a very expensive and popular restaurant here in NYC that sits along Central Park has failed building codes for years to the point that it got so expensive for them they had to close. What were they consistently failing? No sprinklers in the ancient wood ceilings of their dining rooms. Why? Because the cost to put them in and get them up to code would be very expensive. Finally the cost of human life became to much they shut down before it became public with a "we will be opening in the spring" They had to literally gut the place. So yes the city and the commercial re-insurance provider tries to get the buildings up to code but if the owners are unwilling then the potential for catastrophic events is greater.

 

Same thing happens in cities that allow sub standard building in areas that have historical flooding. 


The City of New Orleans is below sea level, yet they are rebuildong. 


 

This is a big part of the problem. Areas that really aren't fit for human habitation in relation to the weather that destroys it on some kind of regular basis, is constantly being built, expanded and rebuilt. 

 

People who choose to live in areas where this happens again and again need to bear the brunt of the financial responsibility for doing so. 

 

 


The whole country needs to bear the brunt not just NY,NJ,Calif and Conn. We pay the highest % for catastrophic natural and man made disasters. As for the rebuilding as I said prior posts the levees need to be upgraded. A lot of these areas house the poor who can not just pick up and move. It is a human made issue compounded by rising water levels which is due to climate change. This is not my opinion this is based on science. I work in the field of Commercial Re-Insurance albeit on the financial and legal side of engineering but I as a layman have read enough reports and reviews of these areas to know what is needed and what is around the corner.

Respected Contributor
Posts: 4,426
Registered: ‎03-10-2010

Re: The Economic Side of Natural Disasters


@CrazyDaisy wrote:

@AngusandBuddhasMom wrote:

@CrazyDaisy wrote:

@pitdakota wrote:

@Noel7 wrote:

@Lipstickdiva wrote:


 



The problem with that is there are too many different points of view.

 

Not ALL scientists believe in climate change or global warming.  So some people are following the advice of a scientist.  But not with the same belief as others.

 

Not all doctors would give the same advice.  That's why people go for second or even third opinions.  So most people do follow a doctor's advice but again, that doctor's advice may be different from your advice so who is right?

 

And again, all financial experts don't agree on the same manner of investments, etc. 


 

@Lipstickdiva

 

97% of the world's leading scientists in the field know global warming has been happening for some time now.

 

Every civilized country in the world is working with the group dedicated to figuring out what can be done.  There is no question about it.  There really are not too many points of view on this.  They are in agreement.

 


_____________________________________________________

 

@Noel, lol we posted at about the same time.  So true.  It is not just that natural disasters have always occurred.   Many people don't understand the evolvement of history that when many of those other signficant natural disasters occurred in past history, they were also tied to increased emissions such as a huge volcanic eruption which impacted the climate. 

 

The issue of climate change is very complex and I think many people don't understand or have not taken the time to really understand other periods in history and events that impacted the climate at that time.  It is just easier to say that there have always been natural disasters.

 

The irony is that there is quite a bit of potential positive economic growth from accepting the science of climate change. 


I really don't understane why you want to attach others who do not share your opinion.  Does it make you feel superior?  Why would you assume that others are not just as knowledgable as you, just have come to different conclusion.  Happens everyday


She is talking about proven facts not her personal opinion. If others understood that they would not be denying the facts.


Nothing is PROVEN.  It is conjecture based upon current observations.  Making conclusion based upon that is opinions.


Wowza right ok then

Honored Contributor
Posts: 18,752
Registered: ‎03-09-2010

Re: The Economic Side of Natural Disasters


@Mominohio wrote:

@golding76 wrote:

Let's get to the nub of this matter:  Even if you believe there is no such thing as climate change, why not put a few precautions in place to err on the side of caution?  Why not? Refusing to do so is simply being willful and stubborn about your point of view.

 

As for those who like to say, "I'm not a scientist, so I really do not know if there is climate change or not," your argument is specious.  Are you a doctor?  Most of you will answer no to that, and yet you follow your doctor's advice, don't you?  Are you a financial adivisor?  Most of you will answer no to that question, too, and yet you follow the advice of your broker or whoever (if you have one).  I could bore you with more examples, but I am certain you understand my point.

 

Just err on the side of caution for now.   

 


 

You will always find, in any profession, people with multiple recommendations to solve a problem or even come to a consensus that a problem exists, how bad it is, and where it comes from, let alone the 'fix' for it. 

 

This topic is no different. There are other reputable scientists that see it differently. 

 

We don't have to err on the side of caution, that gets us in deeper financially oftentimes than is needed.

 

What we need to do is use practical applications to real problems. I saw a news report the other day, and it was about a city in Florida that has had these storm surges in the past, and has worked up an extensive system of pumps and they noticed a great result from this this time around and will be expanding the pumps in the future. 

 

I think it might have been around Miami Beach somewhere, but I really don't recall exactly what town it was. The point is, dealing with things like this, that make direct impact, is the place to start spending the time and money. Not just throwing money at the wall and hoping it sticks somewhere. Real answers for actual problems that directly effect people, property, and the economy locally.


 

@Mominohio

 

Your comment in bold is what this line is all about.  Possibly you haven't read the comments?

 

I have made numerous suggestions on what can be done, as have others posting here, and what IS being done so far.

 

And THAT is why I said THIS LINE IS NOT ABOUT POLITICS.

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Posts: 512
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Re: The Economic Side of Natural Disasters

Respected Contributor
Posts: 3,970
Registered: ‎03-16-2010

Re: The Economic Side of Natural Disasters


@golding76 wrote:

A Chinese company is offering free training to U.S. coal miners to become wind farmers.  In fact, I recently saw a piece reporting that several of these former coal miners were upset that plans to install the windmills were scuttled. 

 

You get used to new things when necessity calls.

 

https://qz.com/990192/a-chinese-company-wants-to-retrain-wyoming-coal-miners-to-become-wind-farmers/


_______________________________________________________

 

This is a great example of what I have been talking about here.  A friend of mine that has been working with coal miner groups in Eastern Ky and I were talking the other day.  He made the comment of something along the lines of could  you imagine if the candle industry in the 1800s had a lobby similar to the coal lobby now where we would be?  They would have convinced people that electricity was an evil thing, that candles were the only way to go to provide light, etc.  lol    I certainly got his point.

 

As a nurse I am also acutely aware that coal miners have significant health problems such as black lung.  My university did a study some years ago that looked at the number of Medicaid dollars the state spent on paying health care expenses for black lung & the dollar amount paid out in disability to coal miners that had become disabled due to black lung.  I don't remember the exact numbers, but it was staggering. 


* Freedom has a taste the protected will never know *
Honored Contributor
Posts: 18,752
Registered: ‎03-09-2010

Re: The Economic Side of Natural Disasters


@pitdakota wrote:

@Noel7, many farmers around here now grow corn & soy beans.  But there are also now many vineyards.   But there was a day you couldn't drive anywhere in the state without seeing field after field of tobacco growing.  Or you saw tobacco hanging in the barns.  A few still grow a little tobacco, but it is absolutely nothing like it used to be. 

 

So yes, I feel the same way about coal.  There are others out there that are trying to give coal miners an option but the coal industry is a powerful lobby.


 

Thanks for your comments @pitdakota  I've been following the coal industry to some extent my entire life.  My Welsh grandmother kept us all on alert for mine disasters here and in Wales.  The American Welsh community always responded to calls for help.

 

When I became an adult I saw the eye opening documentary film about the strike in the mines.

 

And now... the very sad treatment of miners, including encouraging false hope without retraining.

Esteemed Contributor
Posts: 5,892
Registered: ‎03-20-2010

Re: The Economic Side of Natural Disasters


@AngusandBuddhasMom wrote:

@CrazyDaisy wrote:

@AngusandBuddhasMom wrote:

@CrazyDaisy wrote:

@pitdakota wrote:

@Noel7 wrote:

@Lipstickdiva wrote:


 



The problem with that is there are too many different points of view.

 

Not ALL scientists believe in climate change or global warming.  So some people are following the advice of a scientist.  But not with the same belief as others.

 

Not all doctors would give the same advice.  That's why people go for second or even third opinions.  So most people do follow a doctor's advice but again, that doctor's advice may be different from your advice so who is right?

 

And again, all financial experts don't agree on the same manner of investments, etc. 


 

@Lipstickdiva

 

97% of the world's leading scientists in the field know global warming has been happening for some time now.

 

Every civilized country in the world is working with the group dedicated to figuring out what can be done.  There is no question about it.  There really are not too many points of view on this.  They are in agreement.

 


_____________________________________________________

 

@Noel, lol we posted at about the same time.  So true.  It is not just that natural disasters have always occurred.   Many people don't understand the evolvement of history that when many of those other signficant natural disasters occurred in past history, they were also tied to increased emissions such as a huge volcanic eruption which impacted the climate. 

 

The issue of climate change is very complex and I think many people don't understand or have not taken the time to really understand other periods in history and events that impacted the climate at that time.  It is just easier to say that there have always been natural disasters.

 

The irony is that there is quite a bit of potential positive economic growth from accepting the science of climate change. 


I really don't understane why you want to attach others who do not share your opinion.  Does it make you feel superior?  Why would you assume that others are not just as knowledgable as you, just have come to different conclusion.  Happens everyday


She is talking about proven facts not her personal opinion. If others understood that they would not be denying the facts.


Nothing is PROVEN.  It is conjecture based upon current observations.  Making conclusion based upon that is opinions.


I guess if you watch Fox News that is what would be told to you.


Don't watch Fox News, but that is always a good come back when you have nothing else. 

Someday, when scientists discover the center of the Universe....some people will be disappointed it is not them.