Community Chat

[Lisa Y]

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@Annabellethecat66 wrote:

I've always been lucky in that I've had amazing English teachers.

I often think about words and wonder....'how do I know how to use the correct word', or how do I know how to spell the word correctly'.

I've been told I should have been an English teacher.  It was never an option as I didn't have money for college.

There are so many things in life we take for granted.  However, I think we especially take for granted our elementary school teachers.

I don't know if I heard this or saw it on a bumper sticker but it definitely makes sense:  "Everything you need to know to survive in life you learned in elementary school."

My late husband and I used to play word games.  I've always been an excellent speller and he knew the meaning (well he was better at verbal explanations than I was) of words.

Growing up, my Dad would play 'word games' with me.  The larger words he taught me were called .25 cent words.

After my daughters were born I decided to go to the Community College in our area.  I also wrote for the school newspaper.

I think (based on some of the amazing posts here) many of you are very well educated and some are retired school teachers.

With that in mind, I'd like to send my appreciation for helping someone like myself get through school.  My home life was extremely difficult.  There were times when the only thing that kept me going was my love for learning and knowing that I'd be in the presence of people who actually WANTED to teach me.

There you go people.  Look, somehow I know to use the spelling of 'presence' rather than 'presents'.

Unfortunatly, I don't think enough importance is put on grammar .....

I don't equate correct grammar totally with intelligence, I think many times humans come out with guns and fists drawn because they've forgotten 'how to use their words'.

Come to think of it, that's what I used to say to my girls, "Use your words".  

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@Annabellethecat66  Thank you writing such a thoughtful piece.  As a third grade teacher, I am always trying to instill in my students to write complete sentences and to check their spelling. I have them write thank you notes to performers who come in to the classrooms to work the children. They write weekly letters to me about the books they are reading in school. We write, write, write!!  Hopefully, some of the grammar will stick with them. I think that with computers and spell check available, grammar goes out the window.

[jlkz]

@grandma r 

Not only were there no aides, but quite a few of our classes were two different grades in the same room same time.

As for respect, they even got it when they were out of the room !

The English exercise I loved the most:  diagramming sentences because it made it very clear, i.e., subject vs. object and which words modified the nouns !  Made learning foreign languages a little easier because of the clarifications.

[this is my nic]

Fascinating topic!

DH and I went to the same school from 3rd grade through 12th.  He was 2 years ahead of me, but we had the same teachers.  His grammar and spelling are atrocious while mine are much better. However, he is a math whiz; he's an electrical engineer.  Unfortunately, math has always been a mystery to me.  Together we make a reasonably intelligent person! 

[Annabellethecat66]

I have 3 daughters.  I have 7 living grandchildren.  We have always been teacher helpers throughout the years.

Just yesterday I was talking to my friend about being a helper at school.  I told her I was often asked if I resented parents who never came to school to help out.

I told her that I used to say, "No, I don't resent them because my child benefits from it when I come to help out.  It does make me sad though because I see how excited the child is when the parent takes a day off from work just to help out".

It would always start out days before his or her mom (or Dad) was coming.  I'd hear them say, "My mom (or dad) is coming here like Mrs. A does.  I get to sit with her and pass out the snacks".  The pride that kid would demonstrate would be so much fun.

It's frustrating the way parents will save up leave for a vacation but never think about taking 1/2 or a day off just to be with their child at school.  OK people don't start in on "well we only get X amount of leave or whatever".  I've heard it all.

If more people would visit their kid's classroom for at least one day per school year, so many things would never happen.  I won't bore you with some of the many, many things you'd have been able to avoid just by seeing the inter-action between your child, the teacher and the other children during the time of day when your child is the most alert.  Think about it.  This child spends more awaking hours at school than they do during any other time.

OK, I'll get off of my soap box.  I have a lot of friends who are retired teachers.  Some of them said they didn't like the way the 'system' was going so they had to quit.

A teacher sees children who could just use a hug.  Yet, in many school systems, they are told, "Do not touch the child".  Again, I'll stop right there on this subject.

People don't go into teaching to get rich or famous.  The people I've met go into teaching because they love children and love teaching others.  

@ECBG is a friend of mine.  She was a teacher.  She is one of the sweetest people I know.  There are so many unsung hero's out there.  Among the most noticeable are teachers.

*Please note the use of the word YOU doesn't mean a specific person.  I'm speaking in generalities. 

[dianajo_67]

Let me preface this by saying that I’m a white, republican, retired Air Force officer.  I was a speech writer for 4 different 4-star generals.  I was editorial assistant of an academic journal back in the day.  I’m a bit perfectionist to say the least.   I know grammar.  I have also studied other languages and been an exchange student in high school.

 I recently got into an argument with my teenage stepson about the word “funner.”  I ended up doing some research and learned a few things.

- the word “fun” was, until recently, only a noun.  It wasn’t used as an adjective until the 1960s.  Ex.  It was a fun game.  

- Nouns don’t have superlative versions, so “funner” and “funnest” haven’t been accepted yet.......  Eventually....maybe.   Nouns can be modified with “more” and “most”.  Ex.  We had more fun playing that game than the other one.

- Socio-economically preferred dialect determines which words are accepted as words by the dictionaries.   We all know what “funner” means but it’s not appropriate because it’s not equated with the preferred upper classes.  Same with words like “homies” that we all understand, but don’t recognize as “proper” English.  We look at “made-up” words as evidence of lack of education ie. lower social status.  Words from the non-preferred economic classes aren’t accepted by those who manage dictionaries generally.

I will admit that I’m aware I subconsciously and consciously judge people by how they dress and speak.  People who sound educated have greater credibility than those who sound like they lack exposure to varied ways of thinking.

At the same time, I believe there’s something to the argument that “white privilege” and being rich plays a role in what is considered “acceptable” grammar and what words are accepted into the dictionary.  

I’m still essentially a conservative, but was surprised what I could learn about that when I took a hard look at something as basic as the question of why “funner” is not an accepted word.  Really not trying to argue with anyone and I think we should all try to speak and write in such ways as to be taken seriously.  At the same time, I think we’ve looked at our grammar lessons as though they’re etched in stone without questioning how they became lessons in the first place.  Just food for thought.

BTW...I’m just sharing what I learned in my research....thought it was interesting.  Take it or leave it.

[ECBG]

@Annabellethecat66 Thank you Love!

The last one I got into college an am still mentoring is now an assistent to the Duke University Chaplin!  I am SO proud of him, I could burst!  

When he comes home, we meet for dinner at Bone Fish!

Half of my FB are former students!

Now I am showing ladies how to put items together to show the beauty they have within, and bring their pride and the light back into their eyes.

[ALRATIBA]

I have had an interest about the origins of language(s) and words since I was in high school - also had fantastic teachers in Catholic schools.  I majored in English in college (minor - Classical Studies).   One of my smaller book shelves is all language-related books.

Did you ever stop to think about the origin of language?   

Why Only Us:  Language and Evolution.  

From Amazon:

We are born crying, but those cries signal the first stirring of language. Within a year or so, infants master the sound system of their language; a few years after that, they are engaging in conversations. This remarkable, species-specific ability to acquire any human language—“the language faculty”—raises important biological questions about language, including how it has evolved. This book by two distinguished scholars—a computer scientist and a linguist—addresses the enduring question of the evolution of language.

Some other nteresting reading - 

The Origin of Language by Merritt Ruhlen

In Ancestral Journeys: The Peopling of Europe from the First Venturers to the Vikings (Revised) ... has a chapter on the spread of languages.  This has a lot of info on the use of DNA to track migrations.  If you have had your DNA tested .... this might be the book for you.

For those of you interested in "words," there are a couple of books, one of which I recommended in the Book forum ....

Enangered Words:  Simon Hertnon's guied tour of one hundred exceptional rare words.

From Amazon's blurb:  

Hertnon describes his book as a gallery of fine words, and a stroll through it will introduce you to words that give you reason to pause and consider. Some words hit you between the eyeballs, others make you laugh or nod your head in wistful recognition. But every word reminds you of the value tied up in our language, if only we take the time to explore, discern, and share. Do take a look inside.

(snip)   Endangered Words features 100 hand-picked rarities. For  each word, Hertnon explains meaning, derivation, rarity, usage, and why he chose the word for his ‘exhibition’. Related words, keen wit, crisp quotations, and an eclectic short story are all to be found on Simon Hertnon’s guided tour.

Also .... The Entymologies of Isidore of Seville.   This is a really interesting read.  One of those books you pick up and spend an hour or so ... and then ponder for a while.

From Amazon:  

This work is a complete English translation of the Latin Etymologies of Isidore, Bishop of Seville (c.560-636). Isidore compiled the work between c.615 and the early 630s and it takes the form of an encyclopedia, arranged by subject matter. It contains much lore of the late classical world beginning with the Seven Liberal Arts, including Rhetoric, and touches on thousands of topics ranging from the names of God, the terminology of the Law, the technologies of fabrics, ships and agriculture to the names of cities and rivers, the theatrical arts, and cooking utensils. Isidore provides etymologies for most of the terms he explains, finding in the causes of words the underlying key to their meaning. This book offers a highly readable translation of the twenty books of the Etymologies, one of the most widely known texts for a thousand years from Isidore's time.

I have Isidore's book on my Kindle.  Everytime I pick it up to read, I wonder what he would think about me sitting here - 1500 years after he wrote this in Latin - reading it in English on a Kindle.

[Annabellethecat66]

@jlkz  Yes, I always loved to diagram sentences.

[ECBG]

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@Annabellethecat66 wrote:

@jlkz  Yes, I always loved to diagram sentences.

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@Annabellethecat66 SO did I!  It was fun!

[lovesrecess]

I taught English and ESOLnfor many years. My mother was what we lovingly called a “strict grammarian”. We were quickly asked to correct speaking errors. Unfortunately, proper grammar has become passé due to so many foreign languages being spoken and as English is being learned as a second language, grammar is not emphasied. Technology has not helped the cause....lol, etc! Being well-spoken reflects either in a positive or a negative way the amount of instruction a person has received, or has taken to heart.