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04-09-2019 05:49 PM
You know, I was just thinking that not everyone wants to or can go to college (for various reasons). Yet, in this country, all we ever hear is college, college.
Buiding a house has become so complex these days, one needs to go to trade school just to learn how to become a plumber, etc.
These kids go to college and many of them flunk out after the first or second year. I saw that in my family just a few weeks ago.
Then people graduate and they aren't really trained to do anything specific....but (and there's a lot of money in that word but) they are so in debt many of them will never get out of that debt.
It's interesting that I've heard a few people saying lately that colleges need to "put some skin in this game". That means colleges need to buck up and do more to help these kids either pay that enormous tuition or if they don't make it, do more to get behind him academically.
If you think about it, it's a win-win for the college. It's always been a joke "He's on the 5 year plan for college" (things like that). Well, perhaps if the colleges had something to loose when these kids dropped out/flunked out, etc, they'd take more of an interest in the kid, etc.
I'm not an 'academic'. I don't know the answers. But what I do know is something must be done because these people are starting out their lives with enormous debt.
Just yesterday I was talking to my oldest daughter about the fact that she and her husband started their married life with absolutely no college debt. My husband and I paid for all of it. My son-in-law went ROTC at UVA (that's why he went there). He could have gone to Harvard, etc. but he wanted to go ROTC. As it turns out his parents gave him the money they'd saved for him to go to college when he graduated. He wanted to do it on his own. That's the kind of man he is. Not all kids have that option.
This is a great country. But there are still so many 'things' that need to be worked out...this is just one of them.
My niece is a Professor at Stanford University. I'd love to talk to her and hear her take on all of this.
04-09-2019 05:58 PM
@Annabellethecat My son has his master's in teaching. He says college isn't for everyone' and that people need to learn trades ,again
I have read there is a shortage of welders, and the pay is really good. That is true in many, fields
My husband was a skilled tradesman and he was apprenticed for 8 years. Then he got a journeyman's card .
We were watching a program about bespoke tailoring ,and I told my husband, you could do that job so easily ,with your training, of course ,he would have had to learn sewing skills, but making a pattern ,to fit a shape, is really an art form, and also a feat of engineering . One that my husband understands well.
The world is filled with possibilities, but ,it seems kids want to be rock stars, or athletes, and so few make it to the top, even if they are a huge talent.
04-09-2019 06:01 PM - edited 04-09-2019 06:07 PM
No one who doesn’t want to be in college should be there. Period. If there is “free” college for everyone, there will be some who hide out in college to avoid getting a job....it has been happening for years with Pell grants and other government subsidies. No degree is worth graduating with six-figures debt. Pay as you go, go to a trade school, or work your tail off and get a scholarship.
The parents have not thought about the impact of this on their own kids. They are the true victims if they were not aware of their parent’s crimes....and what school is going to admit them now? No college wants to have them enrolled at their school for fear they will be accused of taking bribes....so many consequences these celebrity and wealthy parents never thought about...just too used to buying their way through anything.
04-09-2019 06:27 PM
Having worked in higher education for 30 years, I agree state universities and community colleges should continue to offer trades, whether in certificates or various degrees. A world full of liberal arts students isn't exactly what a society needs. And prestige institutions produce a lot of liberal arts undergrads.
The community college I work at has various certs/degrees in computer science, fire science, police science, cosmetology, paramedic program, nursing, dental hygenist, interior design, drafting, graphic design, baking and chef programs, sustainability & agriculture, child development, and even a three year train conductor program requiring trig and physics. I know I left out some programs. Although many of our students transfer on to bachelor programs, career ready programs are well attended and I'm thrilled our campus is preparing students to go out into the world with skills.
Wish I had some pixie dust to toss around. Imagine how free community college and state university tuition would be an asset to our society if students could begin careers without debilitating debt. Some college students may be 30 - 50 years old before they can afford to buy homes, drive reliable vehicles or take nice vacations.
Yes -- maintaining academic success, student volunteerism or civic duty and increased taxes would be needed for free tuition. I'm thankful our veterans catch a break on college tuition.
04-09-2019 06:34 PM
My son is a ve,t and he went to school on the GI bill. They have to pay for this now. At one time they didn't
It was a big chunk of change out of every pay , for a while..Many of the guys didn't want to have the money taken from them ,and didn't sign up
My son teaches all over the world, and chose to get his masters online ,from the school that taught him while he was in the Navy. They flew the instructors to the base to teach the men. It is a school in Illinois, and they were wonderful instructors
04-09-2019 06:43 PM
@cherry You and your husband are so right. My late husband had a masters degree (school at night, VA benefits, etc). He started a computer business back in the very early 80's. It got very big and he was bored so he sold it back to his partner. He started various other small businesses but his favorite was building and fixing up houses He loved it.
He used to complain that he couldn't find people qualified to do the work.
So, with that in mind when he died suddenly, I set up a scholarship in his name at a high school that was named after his family. I thought he'd really like it.
So, after my son-in-law did all of the work (lots of paperwork,etc) of setting everything up, we went to the high school and here was my requirements, it had to be for someone (male or female) who wanted to learn a trade (i.e. plumbing, heating/air conditioning, etc). They only needed to have a solid C average (or above) when they graduated high school. It had to be an accredited trade school. (There were a few other minor things, nothing that would prevent a serious student from earning it). It was enough money to pay for (what was at the time) the entire tuition.
Do you know the school turned it down? They said it had to be for an academic college. There were other things, but that was the jest of it right there.
We were floored! Now this was back around 2005-2006 so I hope things have changed at this school. Ironically, this is a high school in an area where there is a lot of families who would want to learn a trade and maybe NOT go to college. It's in Virginia.
I watch (and DVR) all of the "This Old House" shows, etc. I know first hand all of the problems they are very honest about trying to find qualified people to build and repair homes, offices, etc.
In fact, last season the entire seaso showed 3 kids who'd graduated high school (some had college) but wanted to work with their hands. They had them on the show and they learned all of the variations and knowledge needed to build a house these days.
There are so many amazing innovations going into houses today. One needs to be up on the latest and continue to go to school in order to work on these appliances, heaters, etc.
Even car repair needs qualified people working on them. They're all about computers, etc. these days.
You sound like a sharp cookie. You and your husband. Sometimes I get frustrated hearing about people boo hooing about assembly lines closing down. That's what happens sometimes. When that happens people need to go back to school to learn what comes next. They need to be ready to move to where the work is. No longer are people able to live in one place for the rest of their lives (if it's a small town). This is unfortunate because the towns are dying out. The best thing would be for a company to move in there, invest and teach these people new skills.
I really believe the heart of this country are those small towns. I keep hearing about them dying out. I read that Amazon could have gone anywhere. But the main reason they wanted to be in Crystal City, Va (I live near there) is because it's close to DC and the word that gives a bad taste in my mouth (lobbyists). As far as I'm concerned a lobbyist is the bane of this country....they are one of the things that's wrong with this country.
Whoops.....I've drifted off subject again. I need a little pinch to get me back on track.
Take care and I'm sorry I went on so long. I could have just said "You are very bright and it sounds like you and your husband make a good couple". That would have prevented all of my bla bla.
04-09-2019 06:50 PM
That school was stupid. When I had my kitchen remodeled, we looked all over for custom cabinets
The place we chose, had a young lad that had attended my daughters school. He had taken shop class ,and his instructor was so impressed with this young guy, he got him a job ,as a apprentice in a cabinet making company
You should see the job he did on my kitchen. It could be in a Better Homes and Gardens magazine
@Annabellethecat that school was stupid ,and as far as I am concerned, snobs of the first order
04-09-2019 06:52 PM
Have some attained the American dream just on their own initiative and smarts? Of course.
But the reality is that far more people attain the American dream with countless help -- the family they "chose," the neighborhoods they've lived in, the financial situation of the family, and of course their demographics relalting to race and ethnicity.
In the vast number of cases, the self-made man who pulled himself up by his own bootstraps is a myth.
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