Community Chat

[jaxs mom]

I had algebra and geometry in middle school. I also currently live in an area where there are still family farms. Another example of why schools should be focused on the local population. 

[cosmic1]

I don't know how I would have gotten through calculus in college without having taken algebra, geometry and trigonometry in high school.

I actually did have a real life situation where I needed trig. I was writing a software program that accompanied a tool used in the small manufacturing industry. The tool used trig functions to calculate whether the tolerances of whatever it was being manufactured were in line with the specs.

Algebra and Geometry are also used by carpenters, masons and steel workers as well as architects and engineers. Calculus is the basis for statistics which are used for everything.

Math is fundamental to art, language, dance and music.

So, while the kids may not know it now, they may need to use that math in the future.

[missy1]

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@biancardi wrote:

the thing is if you do not make it available as part of the HS curriculum, these kids will NEVER know if they are good or bad at it.

Failing a class or feeling stupid because you don't get it is not the end-all and be-all of HS life.  I was put in an advanced class (my father pressured my counseler to do it - I was not ready, knew I wasn't ready).  I got a D- in that course, while getting A's everywhere else.  The next year, I retook the course and got an A.

Kids need to learn that it is okay to FAIL at things.  Or not be smart at everything.  But if they aren't required to take the class, they will never learn that.  In fact, I hated history in HS.  I took the courses, loathed it. Same with  Government courses    A few years later, I learned that I loved history and government - and I had a leg up because I took those boring dull courses (at least to me) in HS, remembered the stuff I learned and expanded on it.

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Then they can take it as an elective. If you are going to a 4 year university out of the gate, it should be required. Not for graduating from high school or going to a community college/trade school. (They can take it there). 

[Shorty2U]

According to my 3 granddaughters, no!.. lol. Math is all of their least favorite subject. (And I can see why, they make it harder now days the way they do problems).

But it is my thinking, whether you use something you learn or not it's all good. Because that makes you more knowledgeable! (and in 12th grade I had all my credits to graduate but I actually took Geometry again just because I love Math! I still do, I still do taxes on paper just to work my brain! ).

So my answer is YES!

[stevieb]

I'm not sure, but I'm inclined to think not. By that age, most people either have evolved the mental structures to grasp and excel at math and science or they haven't and aren't going to, even though they might be highly capable in other areas. That said, at least a basic exposure to all the more common areas of math should be part of any early high school curriculum. If and when colleges more routinely stop putting so much emphasis on a more or less set pre-college curriculum and a 'well rounded' applicant, then I could see high schools that are more specialized, as many are now, but usually toward math and science. If 'higher' math isn't your forte then past a point you shouldn't have to sufffer and struggle through it when mastering it isn't likely and probably isn't part of your gameplan for the future anyway. 

[hckynutjohn]

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@JAXS Mom wrote:

Education isn't just about employment, it's also about understanding the world and participating in life. 

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For me employment WAS my top priority. My mother raising 4 of us alone? I started working at age 8 to help her and money to me was the only avenue out of living in public housing projects. 

I believe learning and understanding about the world and participating in life for me was actually being a participant as opposed to reading about it in a book.  For me and my life, being "street smart" made me intelligent beyond my chronological age, than it would have being "book smart"

My belief still remains the same. Would I be better at a job by "learning it on the job", or by reading about in a book?  Would I be better at "participating in life " by reading books or actually being a participant in said life. I know what worked best for me.

I believe if more people learned life by living it, the world might be a better place. The best option? Work and earn your own money to get "book smart" and you would have the benefits of both.

hckynut(john)

[jubilant]

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@JustJazzmom wrote:

In response to @jubilant, part of the problem here in this country is that we still do the school calendar according to the way the farm industry worked-- off during the summer months (so those who lived on the farms could assist with harvesting and planting.) Nowadays, there are more people living in cities than in an agricultural society. Because we have about 3 months off in the summer months, many things are forgotten by the time school resumes again in the fall or late summer. The first month is spent reviewing and refreshing the children again on concepts taught at the end of the previous year's schooling.

Most countries go to school year round regardless of the weather and have various breaks during the year in 3 week increments. Their days are longer as well but time is given to the students to do their homework when at school with those longer hours.

Also in foreign countries, math such as algebra is introduced at an earlier age (say around 12 instead of the HS years). There is a higher expectation in foreign schools and there is opportunity for those who are not overly scholastic to get the opportunity to go to various trades instead of the university track. Testing is done on the children at a certain time in their lives to determine which path they should follow-- university or trade school?

Also certain cultures its ingrained from almost birth, that you are to excel at school and the emphasis is on education and not so much sports (the way we emphasize it here per se).

We haven't found the right answer yet to what is the best mix for students here.

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********  Thank you for responding to my post.  I didn't like the idea of having school year round when it first came up. I am not so sure how I feel about that now???  

  I like the fact that testing is done on the children in Japan to determine a path to follow.

  Years ago, when my children were in Jr. High and High School (80's and early 90's) there was a report out that said there was a certain substance or something in the brain that developed in some kids earlier than others.  I'm not sure what is was but psychologists were suggesting that if we waited a year or so to start algebra, or, at least, gave these kids the option of taking it  a year or two down the road, they might do much better. 

  I have not been too much in favor of "no kids left behind".  I know someone whose child was passed each year.  He had a lot of trouble with math.  When that child was tested in the 8th grade.... his math level was 3rd grade level.

  This is not a rare incident from what I understand.  Even the school admitted they don't know what to do with these kids  Can you imagine sending that kid on to 8th grade with that kind of math abillity or lack thereof.  It wasn't for lack of trying either.  That kid worked so hard at it.  It was just pitiful to me. It was obviously not for lack of trying.  This kid has ADD by the way.  The schools are not equipped for these kids.  Why in the world would you not place them where they could  excell?   Why would a teacher not  hold him back.  Not one teacher did that.  I agreed with biancardi when she said there is no shame in failing.  In my day many kids were held back a year and I think it much better than "no child left behind". 

[biancardi]

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@missy1 wrote:

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@biancardi wrote:

the thing is if you do not make it available as part of the HS curriculum, these kids will NEVER know if they are good or bad at it.

Failing a class or feeling stupid because you don't get it is not the end-all and be-all of HS life.  I was put in an advanced class (my father pressured my counseler to do it - I was not ready, knew I wasn't ready).  I got a D- in that course, while getting A's everywhere else.  The next year, I retook the course and got an A.

Kids need to learn that it is okay to FAIL at things.  Or not be smart at everything.  But if they aren't required to take the class, they will never learn that.  In fact, I hated history in HS.  I took the courses, loathed it. Same with  Government courses    A few years later, I learned that I loved history and government - and I had a leg up because I took those boring dull courses (at least to me) in HS, remembered the stuff I learned and expanded on it.

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Then they can take it as an elective. If you are going to a 4 year university out of the gate, it should be required. Not for graduating from high school or going to a community college/trade school. (They can take it there). 

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actually community colleges do have requirements. Why spend the $$ for the course when the basics are in HS? Why waste our colleges time by teaching remedial courses? What else are the students going to take in HS? Underwater basket weaving? Come on, it isn't as if there is a LOT of courses to take. My HS had a college prep track and non-college track. All of my friends took the college prep track, even if they were not thinking of going to college right away. algebra and geometry are BASIC courses. They aren't that tough. Calc, trig, stats - those are electives - but algebra? No wonder we lag behind other countries with this type of attitude.

[JustJazzmom]

Back in the day when a Regents diploma meant something in NYS (in the 1970's), it was required to take 3 years of Math (algebra, geometry and trigonometry) & 3 years of Science (earth science, biology & chemistry) to qualify for this diploma (4 years of History and English were also part of this diploma. Foreign language at least for 4 years also was added into the mix to qualify for this Regents diploma.  Physics was not required but was an elective science as was precalculus. Certain concepts studied in Physics class corelated to the Precalculus so it was encouraged for people to take Physics with Precalculus.

Testing I was alluding to in foreign countries was in Europe (in particular Germany). I had a pen pal and she had to take these exams in what would be our middle school years to determine if she should continue along the academic path or go the trade school path. I am not sure if Asian nations do the same with their children re: testing for academic path or trade school path.

[foundinlv]

I very much believe that anyone who didn't understand algebra simply had a lousy teacher.  A good teacher can explain it to everyone, in fact it definitely should be taught in elementary school.