Community Chat

[Stray]

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@RespectLife wrote:

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@Stray wrote:
If someone is fulfilling minimum requirements of their job it’s very difficult if not impossible to fire them. However, it was my experience, that if you went above or beyond expectations, you could be rewarded quite handsomely. I had many “quiet quitters” working for me but I’d not use that term. They were basically long term employees who felt they would never be fired & were lazy.

In the end, they lost their jobs when the Company outsourced our department & tried to place many of the employees with the new company. Only high performers were selected. If you are of a certain age & lose your pension, that’s a big deal.

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It is only hard to fire them if you are union @Stray 

Many companies are AT WILL, meaning you can quit or get fired for any reason.

No such thing as hard to fire.

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@RespectLife - yes, my company was "at will" in NYC.  But, in the corporate world, unless you committed a crime, fraud or assaulted someone, firing was very very hard.  I was a manager for years & wrote up poor performers & gave memorandums of understanding; everything was documented.  I met with them every month to try to improve performance & documented their poor performance continuance.  I had to meet with the diversity officer, HR & the legal dept....yada yada.   The last three I terminated took 5  years and they got a serverence package, Cobra for a year and outplacement services.  

This was and is a large, well known, successful Company.   The employees i fired  were all long term employees & basically, no one ever gave poor PEs to them before me because they moved between departments a lot. 

when long term employees are fired, they lose their pensions & prestigious companies just don't want a legal challenge or bad press.  Yes, you can fire someone but it's not easy & time consuming.  So you are dealing with low productivity & doing the work yourself plus doing extra time consuming work so you could terminate someone & fill the position.  

probably in smaller companies it's easier 

[Stray]

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@Sooner wrote:

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@3JJJ wrote:

I was a victim of quiet firing. I didn't realize the company was getting rid of us "older" employees until they fired 2 of my friends,one worked there 38  years the other 40.  They gave all of the work the one did to me, with no pay increase.  I asked about that and they said, we'll talk about it in 60 to 90 days.  Guess what - I quiet retired on them.Came in a few days later and said i'm gone.  Best thing that every happened to me.  I know down the line they would have fired me because I never could have done both jobs.  So at least i left under my terms.  I was not going to give them the pleasure of firing me. What a sad world we live in.  

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@3JJJ That's awful.  I am so sorry.  That is a whole other issue and one that laws about age discrimination are supposed to take care of. That's the exact opposite of the slacker problem isn't it?  

Here it about people who work.  Again, how terrible you went through that. 

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@Sooner you can't fire due to age unless the person can't do the job but most companies would try to place them in another job at the same salary. However, if you are a poor performer and happen to be older, you can be terminated.  My former Company, had quite a lengthy process before termination.   

[Sooner]

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@Stray wrote:

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@Sooner wrote:

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@3JJJ wrote:

I was a victim of quiet firing. I didn't realize the company was getting rid of us "older" employees until they fired 2 of my friends,one worked there 38  years the other 40.  They gave all of the work the one did to me, with no pay increase.  I asked about that and they said, we'll talk about it in 60 to 90 days.  Guess what - I quiet retired on them.Came in a few days later and said i'm gone.  Best thing that every happened to me.  I know down the line they would have fired me because I never could have done both jobs.  So at least i left under my terms.  I was not going to give them the pleasure of firing me. What a sad world we live in.  

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@3JJJ That's awful.  I am so sorry.  That is a whole other issue and one that laws about age discrimination are supposed to take care of. That's the exact opposite of the slacker problem isn't it?  

Here it about people who work.  Again, how terrible you went through that. 

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@Sooner you can't fire due to age unless the person can't do the job but most companies would try to place them in another job at the same salary. However, if you are a poor performer and happen to be older, you can be terminated.  My former Company, had quite a lengthy process before termination.   

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@Stray I do know lots of documentation and steps are required by law.  I don't know (or remember) all the details but have friends who were in management in government agencies heard a lot about it in the past.

[hckynutjohn]

And then there is me. Someone said "work to get ahead". In many Union factory jobs, you work to get Seniority. With that comes possible options for a higher paying Grade Level job.

I won't go into my working history of 33 years with the same company that ended up having 2 different names while I worked there. All hourly jobs are blue color workers. Most were working unskilled jobs(that's a joke), and skilled workers like Electricians/Machinists/Pipe Fitters. Much higher paying jobs, but still hourly pay.

 I was not the most zealous worker on my jobs, nor was I a slacker. Each job came with a "Job Description", an agreement with the Union and the Company on exactly what your specific job required you to do, broken down to minute' details.

I followed that to a T with bosses that were A holes. Did only what I was required to do in the job description agreement. It was many pages long, and I knew everything by heart in that Job Description, some bosses did not.

With bosses that treated their workers like their equal? I went the extra doing things I was not required to do. Example: Machine not running for 2 hours, waiting for a Machinist to fix XY or Z.

Well, I knew if the machine was down because of XY or Z , and exactly what needed to be repaired. Instead of waiting 2 hours for a Machinist to show up, I fixed it in 15 minutes. Not in my Job Description, but treat me like a human, and I responded the same.

When it comes to "getting ahead" in my 33 years of employment? Instead "got behind". When I retired my pay was/is 2 Pay Grades Lower than the day I was hired. Why? That would take days typing to get even close to the why, but 1 simple word, that is much overused, is the Y.   Discrimination!

hckynut  🇺🇸

[Venezia]

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@Stray wrote:

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 you can't fire due to age unless the person can't do the job but most companies would try to place them in another job at the same salary. However, if you are a poor performer and happen to be older, you can be terminated.  My former Company, had quite a lengthy process before termination.   

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@Stray - You can't "fire" them, but you can "let them go".  In probably most states, employment is "at will".  Companies don't have to give a reason; just tell the employee s(he) is no longer required.  "Collect your paycheck and don't let the door hit you on the way out."

I've seen too many examples of it, including my own sister-in-law.  She realized what was happening at the company she'd worked at for years, when two others approaching their 60s were quietly "let go".  No, they had not become "poor performers".  However, they were each within a month or so of getting permanent benefits (like health care).  So they were out.

Not long after, the same thing happened to her.  I tried to convince her to sue the company, since there was clearly a pattern of age discrimination.  But she was so traumatized by her treatment that she just wanted to put it behind her.  (She found other work.  So, not incompetent at all!)

I still think she made a mistake not bringing a class-action lawsuit.

Companies are not all benevolent and many find ways of skirting the law.

[Venezia]

To the idea of "Quiet Quitting":  I read about this and also saw news items about it.

Instead of calling employees slackers, it may be worth considering that many of them have been putting in 60-hour weeks (or more) for years, with no overtime pay.  Taking work home.  Sacrificing personal and family time to do work that should be done by more than one person.

Not taking the vacation time to which they're entitled.

Those employees are now sticking to 9 to 5.  Doing the job they are paid for, but reclaiming their own personal time for their health and mental well-being.  Corporate America is reaping what it has sown, IMO.

[CalminHeart]

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@CAcableGirl2 wrote:

It's all about integrity.  If you don't like your job, leave.  If you are paid to do a job, do it, and if you want to advance and be appreciated, work harder than the others.  If you feel that you aren't recognized for your extra efforts, leave and find a company that does appreciate you.

Those who are "quiet quitting" will never get ahead and years later will wonder why they've been passed over, and probably blame someone else - take a look in the mirror. 

Turnover is a problem for many companies, and if their staff is constantly changing because people are leaving, then senior leadership should be finding out why. 

I have worked for multiple companies through mergers and acquisitions, and have found that if you work hard, put in a solid days worth, then you will be rewarded.  If I felt unappreciated in the 40 years that I've worked, I would have left and found a company that does appreciate my efforts. 

I've always said that you are only as good as the last day you worked, if you were a slacker yesterday, then you are a slacker worker and it doesn't matter how long you've been there. 

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There are millions and millions of people who don't have the options many of us have. Your post comes from privilege, not reality.

[CalminHeart]

I am appalled at some of the comments posted here. Where is the compassion? Where is the respect for what others go through? Many of these posts come from a sense of privilege, not reality. 

As a officer who retired from a huge corporation, I've seen it all. Lousy pay. Lousy treatment. Abusive treatment. Minimal raises. Paying below scale "because we can." Cutting benefits. Discrimination. Lack of salary increases. All with record profits at the corporate level. Corporate greed is the biggest issue employees face. To ignore that is to ignore truth.

[chrystaltree]

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@Venezia wrote:

To the idea of "Quiet Quitting":  I read about this and also saw news items about it.

Instead of calling employees slackers, it may be worth considering that many of them have been putting in 60-hour weeks (or more) for years, with no overtime pay.  Taking work home.  Sacrificing personal and family time to do work that should be done by more than one person.

Not taking the vacation time to which they're entitled.

Those employees are now sticking to 9 to 5.  Doing the job they are paid for, but reclaiming their own personal time for their health and mental well-being.  Corporate America is reaping what it has sown, IMO.

Well said.  I think there are people here who haven't worked in decades or ever and the don't understand the work environment as it is now and for the last 20 years or so.  

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[Stray]

I was a nurse in the clinical setting for the first 20 years of my professional life before entering the corporate world. As I look back, the rewards I received were but I can’t say nurses were treated well & we were actually treated quite poorly back in the day.

Many complain of “corporate greed” but all corporations aren’t equal. My former Company had a foundation that gave lucrative grants to many NPOs, had a large volunteer force & I was involved with many rewarding opportunities in the community. I also obtained multiple degrees paid fully by my Company.

I complained about the long firing process because as a manager it was difficult, the work had to get done, high performers morale was at stake & it took up a great deal of my time. The people I fired, were not surprised as I mentored them, suggested classes to take & basically told them the outcome if they did not improve. They were complacent as they knew the Company was reluctant to fire long term employees & felt they were a protected class. Age is a protected class but you still must perform the duties of the job.

On the other side of the coin, this long disciplinary process did have purpose & that was to be sure the person involved was not discriminated against & given ample time to improve their performance before a termination.

I enjoyed working at my former Company & felt employees were treated fairly & I was compensated for my hard work & extra efforts.