Reply
Honored Contributor
Posts: 21,733
Registered: ‎03-09-2010

Re: QUESTION ABOUT FLORIDA AND COVID 19

@pitdakota, please continue to post your informative and well-educated responses. They always give me hope when I'm wondering whether we've all collectively gone nuts. :-)


~Who in the world am I? Ah, that's the great puzzle~ Lewis Carroll, Alice in Wonderland
Esteemed Contributor
Posts: 6,430
Registered: ‎10-21-2010

Re: QUESTION ABOUT FLORIDA AND COVID 19


@pitdakota wrote:

@ccassaday wrote:

@Somertime wrote:

@ccassaday Are you a Florida resident?


No i live in Indiana.


_______________________________________________________

 

@ccassaday  Indiana is one of the states that makes quite a bit of information from the public health department available to the public.  I know several people in public health in Indiana and they are very dedicated.  Dr. Eric Yazel is the Clark County Health Officer and has had a blog and also posted on Facebook at times since the start of covid-19 cases occurring in Indiana. He is also an Emergency Room Physician, so has a dual perspective since he also has a public health background.  Very dedicated.

 

Here is the info for hospitalizations to date for Indiana:

 

0-19 yrs.         45

20-29              183

30-39              371

40-49              601

50-59              952

60-69              1,109

70-79              924

80+                 856

 

The total number of hospitalizations for above is 5,041 with 1,200 hospitalizations in those under 50 years of age.  

 

From the Indiana state department of health website: 

 

https://www.regenstrief.org/covid-dashboard/ 

 

For deaths, as of yesterday (Indiana did not report stats today) there are a total of 1,607 deaths with a total of 27,778 positive cases reported.

 

Of those 1,607 deaths 584 occurred in long term care.  For the 27,778 positive cases 3,033 occurred in long term care.

 

So that does not support that the vast majority of positive cases or deaths are occurring in nursing homes.  

 

https://www.coronavirus.in.gov/2393.htm 


Sorry I meant deaths not cases. We have to realize for the majority of people this is not much worse the flu.  I am not saying don’t be careful but we need to put things in perspective. 

Trusted Contributor
Posts: 1,860
Registered: ‎11-21-2011

Re: QUESTION ABOUT FLORIDA AND COVID 19


@pitdakota wrote:

@pigletsmom wrote:

@Zhills wrote:

Any time you read an article it is to emphasize just one point!  

 

I always remember Dan Rather's headlines about "There was dancing in the streets" when the Berlin wall fell.  AND THER WAS..... one couple out of hundreds of people!

 

They will tell you how many died with Covid-19 but never tell you how many died each day of natural causes by comparison.  If a person coughed once before they died, they had Covid-19!  They link everything possible to it for insurance and statistic's sake.  Please, take these articles with a grain of salt.

 

We have more killed in automobile accidents every weekend than die from Covid-19 the week before!

 

 

 

 


What's really irritating is they have a constant death counter on the TV but no mention of the people recovered. 

 

I noticed here in NY the talk has moved to a lot of old people would have died no matter what. And the state just made an adjustment so my region could open rather than figure out why the state had inaccurate counts compared to the locals in the first place. So I'm guessing we'll soon see a shift in media coverage. Less covid, less press conferences in the near future. 


_____________________________________________________

 

@pigletsmom, here is a link to a tracking site used by many state health departments that identifies the number of those recovered.  For New York it now records 40,159 recovered.

 

https://coronavirus.1point3acres.com/en 

 

Recovery is kind of tricky with coronavirus.  They are seeing what is reported in China in that people that had negative tests after hospitalizations all of the sudden have a positive test and also test positive on a 2nd test given a couple of days later.  This has occurred in the United States as well, in addition it has been reported in some of the sailors from the USS Theordore Roosevelt.  So they will not record those individuals as recovered.   

 

They are also seeing patients discharged from the hospital that are encountering some neurological, renal, cardiac, or pulmonary complications well past hospital discharge.  They technically don't count those individuals as recovered either.  Same goes for those sent to a long term rehab facility to rehab from a stroke that occurred as a result of covid-19.  So those in rehab would not technically be counted as recovered either.

 

As for differences in data, that is to be expected.  Numbers are initially entered, but then a team has to go through and flushed out the specifics of the data.  For example, a person may be hospitalized in one county and die in that hospital, but actually reside in another county.  The death is initially recorded for that county.  When the data is reviewed, they will then subtract that death from the county and move it to the county of residence.  

 

It also happens when there are hospitals close to state borders.  Someone that lives in state A goes to the hospital in State B because it is closer.  That person dies, the death certificate records the death in the county it occurred.  For matter of disease surveillance and death, that death would then be reviewed and moved back to state A.

 

Data will fluctuate.  Not to mention there are areas that have different reporting times.  Some data sites may record data from noon to noon for a 24 hour period, others may report from midnight to midnight.  Then different hospitals or counties may report at different times.  A death that occurred at 4:00pm will be counted by one data company in their 24 hr period of time, but not recorded in the other until the next day depending on the timing of their 24 hour period.

 

 


Yes I know how the numbers work. Our recovered numbers don't come close to the actual cases we've had. And we have two regional hospitals in my city so I realize the numbers can change based on where people live. I believe NY had our numbers screwed up because of this problem, likely double counting people from one county in a hospital in another.

 

All that being said, we do have recovered data. So a TV channel having infection numbers on the screen and death numbers on the screen all day long without ever talking about any people recovering is a bit odd. I actually even had a brief rare period in my life where I was happy with Governor Cuomo who was calm and reminding people that the vast majority of people will recover. I should have checked that at the time because it wasn't long before he moved on to telling anyone what that was worried about working that we'd all die.

Super Contributor
Posts: 421
Registered: ‎04-24-2010

Re: QUESTION ABOUT FLORIDA AND COVID 19

I had decided I wasn’t going to post about the virus anymore because I realize people are fixed in their position so an exchange of ideas is pretty pointless. However here I am on a Monday morning breaking my own rule, hopefully for the last time!

 

We are all exhausted, stressed and want to be done with the horrible effects of this virus but I just want to point out that the sacrifices we have all made are the only reason things are finally improving.

 

Even those of us in NY are at risk of forgetting the horrifying situation we were in six weeks ago. At the time Gov. Cuomo said in one of his first press conferences that they were more worried about mass panic even than the virus. That was literal. The NYC hospitals were on the verge of overload and collapse. Had that occurred no EMT’s would have responded to distress calls, people would have died ugly deaths at home and in hospital hallwways as we saw in Spain and there would have been a breakdown of social order in the streets. Police would have been ineffective and there would have been runs on the banks, not toilet paper.

 

So I don’t think those that are pushing caution want to keep the economy from recovering or want to scare people. I think they were far more aware than we were of how bad it could get and don’t want to lose the progress we have made.

 

Trusted Contributor
Posts: 1,860
Registered: ‎11-21-2011

Re: QUESTION ABOUT FLORIDA AND COVID 19

But there are many people who are in a panic. We have people on this board who freak out if someone in the grocery store goes the wrong direction in an aisle. We've put people in the position where they are panicked because someone walks by them even when they are both wearing masks. People becoming a nervous wreck when they're walking outside and suddenly come within 3 feet of people. If you go to the grocery store and then fret for 2 weeks about getting sick that's being in a panic. No one seems to remember that the six foot rule is based on talking not being alive. 

Super Contributor
Posts: 421
Registered: ‎04-24-2010

Re: QUESTION ABOUT FLORIDA AND COVID 19


@pigletsmom wrote:

But there are many people who are in a panic. We have people on this board who freak out if someone in the grocery store goes the wrong direction in an aisle. We've put people in the position where they are panicked because someone walks by them even when they are both wearing masks. People becoming a nervous wreck when they're walking outside and suddenly come within 3 feet of people. If you go to the grocery store and then fret for 2 weeks about getting sick that's being in a panic. No one seems to remember that the six foot rule is based on talking not being alive. 


Yes, but I guess I would say that they are overreacting from fear or lack of knowledge which is probably inevitably going to happen to some during a worldwide pandemic. Hopefully time will ease their extreme reactions.But the people in charge have to respond to realistic mass panic that can result from a breakdown in law enforcement, the healthcare system and/or banking system. It’s difficult and messy to strike the right balance.

Honored Contributor
Posts: 21,733
Registered: ‎03-09-2010

Re: QUESTION ABOUT FLORIDA AND COVID 19


@pigletsmom wrote:

@pitdakota wrote:

@pigletsmom wrote:

@Zhills wrote:

Any time you read an article it is to emphasize just one point!  

 

I always remember Dan Rather's headlines about "There was dancing in the streets" when the Berlin wall fell.  AND THER WAS..... one couple out of hundreds of people!

 

They will tell you how many died with Covid-19 but never tell you how many died each day of natural causes by comparison.  If a person coughed once before they died, they had Covid-19!  They link everything possible to it for insurance and statistic's sake.  Please, take these articles with a grain of salt.

 

We have more killed in automobile accidents every weekend than die from Covid-19 the week before!

 

 

 

 


What's really irritating is they have a constant death counter on the TV but no mention of the people recovered. 

 

I noticed here in NY the talk has moved to a lot of old people would have died no matter what. And the state just made an adjustment so my region could open rather than figure out why the state had inaccurate counts compared to the locals in the first place. So I'm guessing we'll soon see a shift in media coverage. Less covid, less press conferences in the near future. 


_____________________________________________________

 

@pigletsmom, here is a link to a tracking site used by many state health departments that identifies the number of those recovered.  For New York it now records 40,159 recovered.

 

https://coronavirus.1point3acres.com/en 

 

Recovery is kind of tricky with coronavirus.  They are seeing what is reported in China in that people that had negative tests after hospitalizations all of the sudden have a positive test and also test positive on a 2nd test given a couple of days later.  This has occurred in the United States as well, in addition it has been reported in some of the sailors from the USS Theordore Roosevelt.  So they will not record those individuals as recovered.   

 

They are also seeing patients discharged from the hospital that are encountering some neurological, renal, cardiac, or pulmonary complications well past hospital discharge.  They technically don't count those individuals as recovered either.  Same goes for those sent to a long term rehab facility to rehab from a stroke that occurred as a result of covid-19.  So those in rehab would not technically be counted as recovered either.

 

As for differences in data, that is to be expected.  Numbers are initially entered, but then a team has to go through and flushed out the specifics of the data.  For example, a person may be hospitalized in one county and die in that hospital, but actually reside in another county.  The death is initially recorded for that county.  When the data is reviewed, they will then subtract that death from the county and move it to the county of residence.  

 

It also happens when there are hospitals close to state borders.  Someone that lives in state A goes to the hospital in State B because it is closer.  That person dies, the death certificate records the death in the county it occurred.  For matter of disease surveillance and death, that death would then be reviewed and moved back to state A.

 

Data will fluctuate.  Not to mention there are areas that have different reporting times.  Some data sites may record data from noon to noon for a 24 hour period, others may report from midnight to midnight.  Then different hospitals or counties may report at different times.  A death that occurred at 4:00pm will be counted by one data company in their 24 hr period of time, but not recorded in the other until the next day depending on the timing of their 24 hour period.

 

 


Yes I know how the numbers work. Our recovered numbers don't come close to the actual cases we've had. And we have two regional hospitals in my city so I realize the numbers can change based on where people live. I believe NY had our numbers screwed up because of this problem, likely double counting people from one county in a hospital in another.

 

All that being said, we do have recovered data. So a TV channel having infection numbers on the screen and death numbers on the screen all day long without ever talking about any people recovering is a bit odd. I actually even had a brief rare period in my life where I was happy with Governor Cuomo who was calm and reminding people that the vast majority of people will recover. I should have checked that at the time because it wasn't long before he moved on to telling anyone what that was worried about working that we'd all die.


@pigletsmom, the numbers I see in California and in my county and city ALWAYS include several numbers. The ones relevant to your statement would the number who have tested positive and the number of deaths. A quick substraction will give a good current snapshot of those who survived.

 

BTW, in the same vein, the numbers DON'T tell us how seriously ill some of those on the survived side are or were.


~Who in the world am I? Ah, that's the great puzzle~ Lewis Carroll, Alice in Wonderland
Honored Contributor
Posts: 14,488
Registered: ‎04-18-2013

Re: QUESTION ABOUT FLORIDA AND COVID 19


@pigletsmom wrote:

But there are many people who are in a panic. We have people on this board who freak out if someone in the grocery store goes the wrong direction in an aisle. We've put people in the position where they are panicked because someone walks by them even when they are both wearing masks. People becoming a nervous wreck when they're walking outside and suddenly come within 3 feet of people. If you go to the grocery store and then fret for 2 weeks about getting sick that's being in a panic. No one seems to remember that the six foot rule is based on talking not being alive


@pigletsmom 

 

I only see these extreme reactions from a handful of people here (and elsewhere).  Concern and caution doesn't equal "panic".

 

And re: what I underlined, the 6 foot rule is based on breathing.  

Esteemed Contributor
Posts: 5,934
Registered: ‎03-30-2014

Re: QUESTION ABOUT FLORIDA AND COVID 19

As long the most important number is unknown - current positives who have NOT been tested, all the rest is just people getting their jollies rearranging deck chairs.  

For my state I can see how many of us 70 yr olds have been on a ventilator in a ICU and have survived.  What about a good way to calculate the odds? That would take current infections.

Respected Contributor
Posts: 3,336
Registered: ‎03-11-2010

Re: QUESTION ABOUT FLORIDA AND COVID 19

Anyone remember all these measures during the flu outbreak of 1968-1969 that killed 100,000 in the US and over a million world wide ? I thought so.