Community Chat

[novamc1]

Again, isn't it the consumer's job to practice caveat emptor when it comes to parting with money for goods?  For example, the state in which I sold real estate for many years firmly upheld  the buyer-beware rule for purchasers.

Anyone willing or careless enough to be exploited  probably will be exploited, and it's not the seller's job to refrain from trying when it comes to items in scarce supply.   

I don't know how much person-to-person internet selling of mundane paper products actually went on, but I would think the shipping costs and delivery times for those items would stop much of it from happening in the first place.

I did read about one person who bought up a bunch of that stuff and then couldn't unload it for money, so he was stuck.  Obviously, that wanna-be capitalistic "business person" needed a better business plan.

[PilatesLover]

I don't consider people who wipe out food and supplies to the detriment of others to be "stockpilers."  I consider them to be ******es.

[novamc1]

Being fairly well aware of federal anti-trust law, I fail to see how anything mentioned here has anything to do with businesses colluding to control availability and prices of goods in the marketplace- --particularly toilet paper and paper towels which are made by many different companies and sold in many different places.

As  I understand what retail analysts are saying about any current shortages, the supply chains are now in far better shape to handle demand than they were when the pandemic hit.  Not to mention that stores are limiting purchase quantities per customer.

[Mominohio]

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@Spurt wrote:

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@novamc1 wrote:

What you are describing could perhaps be called "good old fashioned capitalism" rather than greed.  

It's the American norm to pursue making money any way we can without breaking any laws.  Our economy wouldn't have gotten very far without that type of spirit driving businesses and start-up businesses of all types.

Not many people would let a dollar lie unclaimed on the sidewalk if they came across it.   At best, they would donate it to charity or a needy person, which is what many "stockpilers" have been doing since the early days of the pandemic.  At least this happens where I live.

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@novamc1 

I respectfully disagree....when you buy "all there is" and then PRICE GOUGE that's not capitalism that's pure GREED....  Capitalism is where several companies compete for business in a competitive free market place and charge a FAIR PRICE.....And ANTI-TRUST LAWS APPLY! ( capitalism includes Anti-Trust laws which are regulations that encourage competition by limiting the market power of any particular firm.).  

Here's Meriam Webster's definition.....

an economic system characterized by private or corporate ownership of capital goods, by investments that are determined by private decision, and by prices, production, and the distribution of goods that are determined mainly by competition in a free market

There's no competition when these people buy up the entire supply and that is the only place where its available....That falls under anti-trust laws! 

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I see the middle ground here. 

People buying a lot of TP at one or two stores in their town, and selling for a reasonable markup isn't a situation where there is no competition, and would fall under anti-trust laws.  It's not even close. They would have to be buying out every source in a wide area and I have never seen that or even seen it mentioned in the news. 

And it really doesn't matter if it is someone going out and buying up the latest toy craze at Christmas and selling them higher on Ebaby or someone buying TP and reselling in a shortage. I don't consider either one something that people who really wanted it, couldn't have gotten it ahead of time and had it put back.  The guy buying for resale will only get what the market will allow. They will only get what people are willing to pay. 

Now if people were buying up true dire necessities, like prescription drugs that people could die without, or truly the only remaining food to be had anywhere around, things that determine whether people live or die, then I would look at it differently.

But the things I see people accused of 'hoarding' and reselling (including disinfecting wipes I've seen shocking prices on this summer) during this event don't really upset me. I figure that karma will sort it all out in the end. Good intentions and practices will be rewarded, bad ones will revisit in other ways.

[Mominohio]

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@SeaMaiden wrote:

Whatever you call it.....it is SELFISH SELFSERVING behavior. Peopke just need to STOP IT😡

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See, this is the issue. "whatever you call it" shows lack of understanding the issue. 

There are three things at play (or more) and they are all very different. 

Hoarding

is different than

Stockpiling

is different than 

Preparedness.

If one can't see and understand the differences, they are actually part of the problem, whipping others into a frenzy of thinking everyone is a hoarder with bad intentions.

And what people need to stop is the hoarding. 

Stocking and preparedness are actually things that if more people had done, there wouldn't have been the hoarding and shortage issues. They wouldn't have needed to buy in huge volumes at a time of shortage, and there would have been no market for the hoarders to make a huge profit off trying to sell them......cause everyone would have been prepared.

Preparedness and stocking are positive things, hoarding and gouging are not. It's important to understand the components of the issue.

[Mominohio]

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@PilatesLover wrote:

I don't consider people who wipe out food and supplies to the detriment of others to be "stockpilers."  I consider them to be ******es.

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I will remind people that many government entities like states have stockpiled huge warehouses of food and goods for this second round. 

Granted, those might be distributed to the needy in time of crisis, but what did it do in the short term? 

It created shortages, which created/added to the panic buying, and people stockpiling during a time of shortage. 

So when placing blame, don't assume it is a bunch of individual ******eS that have created the problem, because much of the shortages and the panic has been caused by the government, who also wasn't prepared, shorting the supply chain in a time of increased demand.

[Shanus]

If you shop regularly at the big box stores like Costco, everything is packaged in large quanities/sizes. It's "pre-hoarded" for you.

[threecees]

I have always had enough toilet paper, paper towels, soap, laundry detergent

on hand for our large family. It is being smart. Who's knows way before this

year started what tomorrow would bring? 

Yes, I use coupons on all these essential items. I am proud to get these very

expensive items at a discount. I have all my essentials neatly organized and

readily available.

Let people think how they think. Am I supposed to drive to the store and get

only one pack of paper towels, etc. when I am low and buy them at full price

when I am down to my last sheet? No, that this not me and would be wasting

my time. Let people think how they think and live the way they want to.

I have a very clean and organized house. With kids and a dog and an older

family member who I take care of, I am well prepared and always have enough

on hand and yes I will gladly share with anyone who needs anything.

[novamc1]

@Mominohio 

I agree that antitrust law has nothing to do with individuals  buying up a lot of one common household product and trying to resell it at a profit.  That's hardly a big chunk of the competitive marketplace. 

Just to pass the regular biennial exams to renew my real estate license, I had to be ready for questions about federal legislation governing such issues as antitrust and fair housing.

I got a chuckle out of the thought that some poor shmuck could be prosecuted in federal court for selling toilet paper or paper towels to some other individuals.  Prisons are crowded already and have no extra space for this type of individual.

[Spurt]

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@novamc1 wrote:

Being fairly well aware of federal anti-trust law, I fail to see how anything mentioned here has anything to do with businesses colluding to control availability and prices of goods in the marketplace- --particularly toilet paper and paper towels which are made by many different companies and sold in many different places.

As  I understand what retail analysts are saying about any current shortages, the supply chains are now in far better shape to handle demand than they were when the pandemic hit.  Not to mention that stores are limiting purchase quantities per customer.

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I don't think what's happening can be called good ole "capitalism"...

The minute stocked shelves are emptied around the U.S. and even Grocery Store Managers know its the same people that are buying up entire store inventories for re-sale (and even with limits per customer imposed, even the store managers know these people who plan to re-sell get family members to help them get around the limit of one per customer) ....And thats not counting other "capitalists" that got banned from Amazon and Ebay for price gougaging....so calling it "capitalism" doesnt work for me and that was my point (normal capitalism has rules in place to prevent creating limited markets that can set any exorbitant price they want)... And this is a necessity, its not like there are other viable options so  consumers are forced to pay the price or go without unless one wants to use corn husks or some other innovative alternate ideas.....Have a good day!