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Honored Contributor
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Registered: ‎06-11-2011

I thought it did look like him tearing down the poster, but I certainly couldn't tell enough for certain.

Esteemed Contributor
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Registered: ‎07-07-2010

@Pearlee, the video certainly showed a tall person, and Otto may have been the culprit.  I noticed that his roommate was quite a bit older and I wonder if he goaded Otto into taking the poster--that is, if Otto was the one on the film.  I did not feel that the roommate showed much concern for Otto considering what happened to him.

The next time that I hear salt and ice together, it better be in a margarita!
Honored Contributor
Posts: 37,847
Registered: ‎06-11-2011

@SXMGirl wrote:

@Pearlee, the video certainly showed a tall person, and Otto may have been the culprit.  I noticed that his roommate was quite a bit older and I wonder if he goaded Otto into taking the poster--that is, if Otto was the one on the film.  I did not feel that the roommate showed much concern for Otto considering what happened to him.


@SXMGirl  Oh, I think that's really unfair about the roommate in terms of goading.   Otto didn't seem like the type, from what I saw last night - who would have needed any goading.  There's no basis for impuing the roommate like that.   I didn't get the same impression you did about him.  Yes, he was older but I don't think he showed lack of concern.  Maybe he wasn't as somber as some others interviewed but I didn't think he was inappropriate in any way.

 

I did wonder why Otto was taken off the plane the way he was, rather than on a stretcher.  It didn't look very good, him being so limp like that - I thought a stretcher was in order.

Esteemed Contributor
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@Pearlee, while it might seem that I was impugning the integrity of the roommate, an older person, in my opinion, has an obligation, especially in a hostile-toward-America country, to make sure that the younger people understand the ramifications of bad behavior and the serious results that could follow.   I found the roommate to be not very concerned when they took Otto away, saying that this would be the last that they saw of him.  It seemed to me it was almost like a joke.  Again, my opinion only.

The next time that I hear salt and ice together, it better be in a margarita!
Honored Contributor
Posts: 37,847
Registered: ‎06-11-2011

@SXMGirl wrote:

@Pearlee, while it might seem that I was impugning the integrity of the roommate, an older person, in my opinion, has an obligation, especially in a hostile-toward-America country, to make sure that the younger people understand the ramifications of bad behavior and the serious results that could follow.   I found the roommate to be not very concerned when they took Otto away, saying that this would be the last that they saw of him.  It seemed to me it was almost like a joke.  Again, my opinion only.


@SXMGirl  I don't think the roommate had any obligation to Otto at all, just because he was older.   Otto was over 21 and the roommate wasn't related to him.  Everyone has free will.   

 

IMO his parents should have really discouraged him strongly from going.  Although he was over 21, they are the ones who had a right or obligation to do that if they thought - and they should have - N. Korea was unsafe (and would have had even more rights to do so by refusing to pay for the trip if indeed they did, which they may not have).  No USA tourist in his or her right mind should be going over there.

Esteemed Contributor
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@Pearlee, I personally believe that everyone has a responsibility to each other, especially when traveling to a hostile nation.  I also believe that the parents should have discouraged this trip.  If they paid for the trip, they will have that on their conscience for ever more.  I also believe that no American citizen should travel there, nor should anyone from any country where there is distrust of that regime.

 

So, we disagree on some things, which is why we live here instead of NK.  We are able to have and voice our own opinions.

The next time that I hear salt and ice together, it better be in a margarita!
Honored Contributor
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Registered: ‎03-12-2010

@sunshine45 wrote:


 

 

@sunala, the coroner does have a say but they can choose not to exercise it.  Google exceptions for prohibition against autopsies and there are several and at least one applies here.  Especially since it seems Warmbier practiced a new-age relativist kind of Judaism anyway, attending a college seder and rewriting the four questions to make them about ciimate change.


 

 

@LoriLori

thanks for mentioning this.

i just read an article called "in praise of new age judaism." it discussed the surge in jewish environmentalism, farming, and wilderness programs. very interesting article.


 

 

@sunshine45, I'm all for religion helping us be the best possible citizens in the modern day.  That said I'm not for rewriting the Passover Haggadah.  Not sure if you're Jewish.  Some Jewish holidays are just that, holy days, and others are festivals, more celebratory than religious.

 

http://www.religionfacts.com/judaism/holidays

 

Rewrite Purim to make Queen Esther a feminist hero, I'd be fine

Sukkoth seems like a wonderful festival to introduce climate change

Etc.

 

Because Passover has to do with Jews being slaves for so long and being freed, and Moses and the ten Commandments, I don't see where any person, new age or not, ought to change that. 

 

But Otto Warmbier let's just say didn't always color within the lines, not that he deserved to die for that.

 

 

Honored Contributor
Posts: 37,847
Registered: ‎06-11-2011

@SXMGirl wrote:

@Pearlee, I personally believe that everyone has a responsibility to each other, especially when traveling to a hostile nation.  I also believe that the parents should have discouraged this trip.  If they paid for the trip, they will have that on their conscience for ever more.  I also believe that no American citizen should travel there, nor should anyone from any country where there is distrust of that regime.

 

So, we disagree on some things, which is why we live here instead of NK.  We are able to have and voice our own opinions.


@SXMGirl  Yes, we do disagree. Who is Otto's roommate to tell him what to do?  Many people would resent people "butting in" when it's really none of their business.  

 

Esteemed Contributor
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Registered: ‎07-07-2010

@Pearlee, again, I believe we all have an obligation to each other, and that does not mean telling someone what to do.  I have always made sure that my children understood that they had to be in control of themselves, especially when something dire could happen.  It is not easy to discourage a young adult from making serious mistakes, but I think we all have an obligation to try to do so.  Dead is not just life-changing; and, if that was Otto on the film, then his irresponsible behavior has caused irreparable heartbreak to his family and friends.

 

This will be my last response as I am finding this tedious.  We are lucky to live in America where we can express opinions.

The next time that I hear salt and ice together, it better be in a margarita!
Honored Contributor
Posts: 18,752
Registered: ‎03-09-2010

The roommate was a travel companion from somewhere they had been previously for a short time.

 

He did make a joke about it being the last time, so did Otto.  Obviously neither one of them took it seriously.

 

IMO we have an obligation to help others if we can, but that does not mean we tell them what to do, especially a 21 year old man.