Community Chat

[Mom2Dogs]

 @CrazyDaisy     I am sure as the days/weeks go on...many more people will start to speak loudly to their governors....some officials are enjoying the power they have over the people in their state.  

We have all done our part to flatten the curve, those that are ill, elderly, afraid, need to stay home and and let the rest of us get back to work.  There is more to this than just flattening the curve.

I speak ONLY OF MY COUNTY...1 death and that person had cancer AND less than 50 covid cases. We can open up a bit more than other areas.

The town that our shop is in has 1 retail business....just one!!  There are a couple of pizza shops and  1 sit down restaurant....of course gas stations...chuches, the streets will soon roll up and the town will not exist.

Where I live is better business wise but like most small towns most retail is gone because of Walmart.  One larger store that sold clothing closed before the virus hit. 

[WenGirl42]

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@Hoovermom wrote:

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@pitdakota wrote:

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@Hoovermom wrote:

Look up Dr. Dan Erickson and his findings.....

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@Hoovermom, Here is the problem with that.  First of all Dan Erickson is an osteopath, not an infectious disease doctor, epidemiologist, etc.  I have posted more than once that docs need to stay in their lane. 

In the hospital a pulmonologist won't touch the cardiologist's area because they aren't the expert.  And vice versa.  A  neurologist won't address vascular problems and vice versa.  Just ain't gonna happen. So when something like this comes out, the first thing someone should do is ask what is their experience in this area. An osteopath has limited experience with infectious disease and will call in a phyisican that specializes in infectious disease to handle the patient.  Doubtful he has any experience working an ebola outbreak in Africa or such since he is not well versed in public health principles. 

I said that with the news about what Dr. Drew was saying.  He needed to stay in his lane of treating addiction.  He ended up  offering a public apology about how wrong he was.  

And for someone that is well versed in public health principles, there are several problems in this doc's statement.  Any epidemiologist, public health physician, or infectious disease doc knows the difference between test positivity rates and community attack rates.   And evidently this doc doesn't have a clue about the difference since he interchanges the two throughout his discussion and bases his information on confusing the two.  Which totally brings a doubt of credibility to what he has to say.  They are 2 totally different things.

Another good reason to leave this to the experts.  

One might argue about whether or not certain measures need to stay in place in a given area depending on their test positivity rates.  But to argue they didn't have an impact is short sighted and actually wrong.  The data in areas around the country more than prove that.  And if those strategies had not been put in place, we would be dealing with astronomical impact on the population with high death rates.  

One chooses to overlook those models when they come out are predicated on the premise that nothing is done to stem the situation.  That is where those high numbers of deaths come into play.  And by my standards we have horrible death rates with over 56,000 deaths occurring in around a month.  

But in the meantime, if you choose not to listen to the experts, go right ahead.  But the next time you have a toothache, please be sure and consider seeing a podiatrist and listening to what the podiatrist has to say about your dental problem. 

In the meantime, many of these governors are trying their best to strategically weigh the horrendous economic impact on their state versus the life and welfare of their citizens.  Many of them have learned the difference between test positivity rate and community attack rate.  Many appear to be very concerned about balancing the economic needs of the state along with potentially jeopardizing the welfare of their citizens.  And they are having to do so without any consistent national response to assist them. 

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@pitdakota :  You want people/professionals you don't agree with to "stay in their lane".  How about you? Maybe you need to practice what you preach.  Are you a doctor/specialist who is reliable with what you quote?  These two doctors are reliable, and you don't have to like them.  Obviously they have garnered a lot of attention.

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For what it's worth, @Hoovermom, these 2 doctors are not reliable, according to the American Academy of Emergency Medicine and the American College of Emergency Physicians.  Link below the quote. Don't worry, I won't argue with you about this...I'm about 95% sure you don't actually believe what you're saying in this thread.  But it's important information for other posters who might be confused and unsure "which experts" to believe.

AAEM-ACEP Joint Statement on Physician Misinformation

"The American Academy of Emergency Medicine (AAEM) and the American College of Emergency Physicians (ACEP) jointly and emphatically condemn the recent opinions released by Dr. Daniel Erickson and Dr. Artin Massihi. These reckless and untested musings do not speak for medical society and are inconsistent with current science and epidemiology regarding COVID-19. As owners of local urgent care clinics, it appears these two individuals are releasing biased, non-peer reviewed data to advance their personal financial interests without regard for the public’s health.

COVID-19 misinformation is widespread and dangerous. Members of AAEM and ACEP are first-hand witnesses to the human toll that COVID-19 is taking on our communities. AAEM and ACEP strongly advise against using any statements of Drs. Erickson and Massihi as a basis for policy and decision making."

https://www.aaem.org/resources/statements/joint-endorsed/physician-misinformation 

[jonbon]

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@WenGirl42 wrote:

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For what it's worth, @Hoovermom, these 2 doctors are not reliable, according to the American Academy of Emergency Medicine and the American College of Emergency Physicians.  Link below the quote. Don't worry, I won't argue with you about this...I'm about 95% sure you don't actually believe what you're saying in this thread.  But it's important information for other posters who might be confused and unsure "which experts" to believe.

AAEM-ACEP Joint Statement on Physician Misinformation

"The American Academy of Emergency Medicine (AAEM) and the American College of Emergency Physicians (ACEP) jointly and emphatically condemn the recent opinions released by Dr. Daniel Erickson and Dr. Artin Massihi. These reckless and untested musings do not speak for medical society and are inconsistent with current science and epidemiology regarding COVID-19. As owners of local urgent care clinics, it appears these two individuals are releasing biased, non-peer reviewed data to advance their personal financial interests without regard for the public’s health.

COVID-19 misinformation is widespread and dangerous. Members of AAEM and ACEP are first-hand witnesses to the human toll that COVID-19 is taking on our communities. AAEM and ACEP strongly advise against using any statements of Drs. Erickson and Massihi as a basis for policy and decision making."

https://www.aaem.org/resources/statements/joint-endorsed/physician-misinformation 

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I posted this statement about 8 pages back, but people believe what they want to believe ...

[Pearlee]

@jonbon And you've been here long enough to know a lot of posters don't read entire threads esp long ones.

[WenGirl42]

@jonbon So you did...sorry about that! I saw your original reply but never saw the edit.  My apologies. 

[Lipstickdiva]

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@Hoovermom wrote:

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@Porcelain wrote:

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@Hoovermom wrote:

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@pitdakota :  You want people/professionals you don't agree with to "stay in their lane".  How about you? Maybe you need to practice what you preach.  Are you a doctor/specialist who is reliable with what you quote?  These two doctors are reliable, and you don't have to like them.  Obviously they have garnered a lot of attention.

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@HoovermomShe is a medical professional. You and I are just civilians with opinions. We should state our opinions but not promote advice or ideas from the medical fringe. The medical fringe is where the whole bleach drinking idea came from.

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@Porcelain :  I don't know her and nobody can really verify her credentials.  Good for her and her opinions.  That is all they are just like the other medical professionals that are addressed here but always shouted down.  I think it is arrogant to call other doctors that don't agree the "medical fringe".  Lots of people feel the way about the other side of the coin.  Free speech here which I am very glad that we have.  I am sorry I am just a civilian and don't know anything but that's ok.  

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These 2 are Urgent Care physicians.  Bothe the American College of Emergency Physicians and American Academy of Emergecy Medicine have condemned their findings are being scientifically inaccurate.  YouTube even pulled the video because it contained too much misinformation.

I just listened to it last night and commen sense tells me a lot of it doesn't make sense.  They are making a lot of assumptions that statistically don't make much sense and I'm not much of a math wiz.  Basicallly they are pulling figures out to get the numbers to suit their beliefs.

ETA:  I posted this before I read through the entire thread so I see this has already by posted a number of times.  LOL

[Lipstickdiva]

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@JJsMom wrote:

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@Hoovermom wrote:

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@Porcelain :  I don't know her and nobody can really verify her credentials.  Good for her and her opinions.  That is all they are just like the other medical professionals that are addressed here but always shouted down.  I think it is arrogant to call other doctors that don't agree the "medical fringe".  Lots of people feel the way about the other side of the coin.  Free speech here which I am very glad that we have.  I am sorry I am just a civilian and don't know anything but that's ok.  

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You insisted on going on your cruise when everything was being shut down and CDC/WHO were saying not to go, yet you want to listen to some non-infectious disease doctor. If you think things are ready to open up again, go right ahead and book that cruise for May or June and see how that goes.

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@JJsMom, everyone will be going on a cruise to nowhere because all cruising is shut down until mid-June, some later than that.  And that's if they don't extend the shutdowns again.

But you cannot and would not believe the number of people who have in fact booked cruises for July and August and can't wait to get back out there.  Me?  I'll pass until all this is more under control and I see what is going to happen.  

[Lipstickdiva]

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@pitdakota wrote:

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@Hoovermom wrote:

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@pitdakota wrote:

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@Hoovermom wrote:

Look up Dr. Dan Erickson and his findings.....

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________________________________________________________

@Hoovermom, Here is the problem with that.  First of all Dan Erickson is an osteopath, not an infectious disease doctor, epidemiologist, etc.  I have posted more than once that docs need to stay in their lane. 

In the hospital a pulmonologist won't touch the cardiologist's area because they aren't the expert.  And vice versa.  A  neurologist won't address vascular problems and vice versa.  Just ain't gonna happen. So when something like this comes out, the first thing someone should do is ask what is their experience in this area. An osteopath has limited experience with infectious disease and will call in a phyisican that specializes in infectious disease to handle the patient.  Doubtful he has any experience working an ebola outbreak in Africa or such since he is not well versed in public health principles. 

I said that with the news about what Dr. Drew was saying.  He needed to stay in his lane of treating addiction.  He ended up  offering a public apology about how wrong he was.  

And for someone that is well versed in public health principles, there are several problems in this doc's statement.  Any epidemiologist, public health physician, or infectious disease doc knows the difference between test positivity rates and community attack rates.   And evidently this doc doesn't have a clue about the difference since he interchanges the two throughout his discussion and bases his information on confusing the two.  Which totally brings a doubt of credibility to what he has to say.  They are 2 totally different things.

Another good reason to leave this to the experts.  

One might argue about whether or not certain measures need to stay in place in a given area depending on their test positivity rates.  But to argue they didn't have an impact is short sighted and actually wrong.  The data in areas around the country more than prove that.  And if those strategies had not been put in place, we would be dealing with astronomical impact on the population with high death rates.  

One chooses to overlook those models when they come out are predicated on the premise that nothing is done to stem the situation.  That is where those high numbers of deaths come into play.  And by my standards we have horrible death rates with over 56,000 deaths occurring in around a month.  

But in the meantime, if you choose not to listen to the experts, go right ahead.  But the next time you have a toothache, please be sure and consider seeing a podiatrist and listening to what the podiatrist has to say about your dental problem. 

In the meantime, many of these governors are trying their best to strategically weigh the horrendous economic impact on their state versus the life and welfare of their citizens.  Many of them have learned the difference between test positivity rate and community attack rate.  Many appear to be very concerned about balancing the economic needs of the state along with potentially jeopardizing the welfare of their citizens.  And they are having to do so without any consistent national response to assist them. 

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@pitdakota :  You want people/professionals you don't agree with to "stay in their lane".  How about you? Maybe you need to practice what you preach.  Are you a doctor/specialist who is reliable with what you quote?  These two doctors are reliable, and you don't have to like them.  Obviously they have garnered a lot of attention.

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I am staying in my lane @Hoovermom.  Retired professional nurse here that worked for years in critical care then moved to public health and ultimately teaching nursing with a focus on public health and health policy, along with some critical care content.  

That is the reason I know for a fact that this guy doesn't know what he is talking about.  You see I understand the difference between test positivity rate, community attack rate, mortality rate, fatality ratio, etc.  

In fact, I have posted that I participated in planning and conducting a county wide disaster drill to a SARS like virus epidemic in my county back several years ago. We used the CDC plan as our guide to develop the drill.   That is why I could also post that there is a response plan for SARS still available on the CDC website.  

And yep, I have years of experience in critical care.  That is how I know you won't get a cardiac doc to write orders or cover for something that the pulmonary doc is covering.  And vice versa.  Lived that for years in nursing.  Been there done that.  They aren't the experts, know that, and want the other specialist to handle that problem.  

And for this guy....he needs to stick to his lane because he certainly doesn't know public health or infectious disease. Probably doesn't know how to figure an R0 rate either.  But that is another story.

If you want to understand something about this coronavirus it is best to listen to someone that has experience with infectious disease and public health.  Basic principle that if you want specific, knowledgeable information about a brain tumor one would listen to a neurosurgeon, not a dermatologist.   And if you want correct and current information about basal cell carcinoma, one would listen to the dermatologist and not the neurosurgeon.  They all have md behind their name but that doesn't make them experts in every single area of medicine.   

In the meantime, this nurse with public health experience and teaching public health can only shake her head as she listened to these guys.  Sad really.    But c'est la vie.  

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@pitdakota, but, but....he studied microbiology.  

[jonbon]

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@WenGirl42 wrote:

@jonbon So you did...sorry about that! I saw your original reply but never saw the edit.  My apologies. 

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No problem -- just wanted to point out that I really don't think very many minds are changed by what's posted here. People on all sides of most issues usually know what they believe to be true and cannot be convinced otherwise.

[jonbon]

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@Pearlee wrote:
@jonbonAnd you've been here long enough to know a lot of posters don't read entire threads esp long ones.

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Of course. My main point was the second half of my reply ... "people believe what they want to believe."