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@Drythe wrote:

@kitcat51 wrote:

@suzyQ3 wrote:

@kitcat51 wrote:

People in this country go nuts over just spotting coyotes in their neighborhood. I understand the concern when these large animals threaten people & hope they use the funds to fight the horrible problem of poaching. I don't like it either but I don't live there & it's their resource.


@kitcat51There is no indication in the article that people are threatened by the elephants. Of course they are wild animals, which I don't think necessitates slaughter.

 

As for hoping the funds go to the problem of poaching? It seems the height or irony to kill them to protect them from being killed.

 

We spoke (through a translator) with one of the head people in charge of catching poachers in the part of Tanzania in which we were traveling. They are diligent in their response to the tragedy. He said that his men shoot to kill, and he wasn't talking about the elephants.


The article I read said they were a problem for farmers, people live on farms. Would you prefer the herd was culled by the government or by hunting fees that could fund the fight against poachers.  Poaching is an awful problem that takes the lives of so many animals &  poachers should be killed on the spot. It would be a great idea for preserves to join together & share money to fight the problem & if limited hunting is going to happen charge huge fees to fund it...$39,000 isn't enough. These animals are their resource to do as the please, tourism & hunting could work together...I don't  like it but it's reality.


@kitcat51 

 

I would prefer that they be transported to another location.

Personally, I do not consider living beings as resources.


Of course they're a resource...they're used for tourism & labor in some countries.

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@suzyQ3 @Drythe 

 

An interesting article discussing some efforts toward solving these issues with the least harm to the elephant, with contraception so far being the most effective means, but not at all easy.

 

I hope the authors sent this to Botswana's president, and maybe even set up a fund to help finance it.  (If the country insists on an elephant bounty, as horrific as it is, I hope someone advises the Botswana president to use the money for contraception before this "bounty" practice goes too far.)

 

Why are people supposed to be the superior ones with all the rights?  I have never and never will agree with that. We are supposed to live in harmony.

 

ohiostate.pressbooks DOT pub/sciencebites/chapter/elephant-contraception-possible-solution-for-south-africas-elephant-problem

 

 

 

Love to be home . . . thus the screen name. Joined 2003.
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Re: No words...

[ Edited ]

"Out" the hunters. Publish their names in the NYT, LA Times, and/or WSJ. They are most likely corporate types and this would affect their business. Do you remember the dentist a few years back in the midwest that was outed with a picture of him displaying his kill with an asinine grin? Absolutely revolting.

 

dee

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Re: No words...

[ Edited ]

@Porcelain wrote:

@esme wrote:

@Porcelain wrote:

@esme wrote:

I asked seriously why this was being allowed...and someone found it inappropriate?

 

I'll try again.  

Why is this being allowed?  It isn't to raise money for the government as environmentalists wanted to buy the permits and not use them but they were not allowed to.  Maybe it's government's effort to support the expedition operators?  That doesn't sound reasonable either.

 

Has anyone read the purpose of this?  Surely it isn't to control the population...is it?

 


Feel free to go destroy an elephant. You don't need an excuse. You can destroy a lot of beautiful things and no one can stop you. We all can. Yet only a few of us do. There are many good reasons so few of us do.


@Porcelain For clarification...since you quoted me, does "you" mean me specifically?  Or do you mean everyone?


I have no idea where you are coming from. If you wish to share how you feel about killing elephants, go right ahead. I doubt you will change my mind.


@Porcelain 

 

Not coming from anywhere. Only asking you to explain to whom your comments were directed.

 

As I've never killed an elephant, I have no feeling about it. I do value (most) human life over that of animals.

I have no interest in changing your mind. 

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@esme wrote:

@Porcelain wrote:

@esme wrote:

@Porcelain wrote:

@esme wrote:

I asked seriously why this was being allowed...and someone found it inappropriate?

 

I'll try again.  

Why is this being allowed?  It isn't to raise money for the government as environmentalists wanted to buy the permits and not use them but they were not allowed to.  Maybe it's government's effort to support the expedition operators?  That doesn't sound reasonable either.

 

Has anyone read the purpose of this?  Surely it isn't to control the population...is it?

 


Feel free to go destroy an elephant. You don't need an excuse. You can destroy a lot of beautiful things and no one can stop you. We all can. Yet only a few of us do. There are many good reasons so few of us do.


@Porcelain For clarification...since you quoted me, does "you" mean me specifically?  Or do you mean everyone?


I have no idea where you are coming from. If you wish to share how you feel about killing elephants, go right ahead. I doubt you will change my mind.


@Porcelain 

 

Not coming from anywhere. Only asking you to explain to whom your comments were directed.

 

As I've never killed an elephant, I have no feeling about it. I do value (most) human life over that of animals.

I have no interest in changing your mind. 


@esme, I don't think that not having ever killed an elephant is a prequisite to having feelings about such kills.


~Who in the world am I? Ah, that's the great puzzle~ Lewis Carroll, Alice in Wonderland
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@suzyQ3 wrote:

@esme wrote:

@Porcelain wrote:

@esme wrote:

@Porcelain wrote:

@esme wrote:

I asked seriously why this was being allowed...and someone found it inappropriate?

 

I'll try again.  

Why is this being allowed?  It isn't to raise money for the government as environmentalists wanted to buy the permits and not use them but they were not allowed to.  Maybe it's government's effort to support the expedition operators?  That doesn't sound reasonable either.

 

Has anyone read the purpose of this?  Surely it isn't to control the population...is it?

 


Feel free to go destroy an elephant. You don't need an excuse. You can destroy a lot of beautiful things and no one can stop you. We all can. Yet only a few of us do. There are many good reasons so few of us do.


@Porcelain For clarification...since you quoted me, does "you" mean me specifically?  Or do you mean everyone?


I have no idea where you are coming from. If you wish to share how you feel about killing elephants, go right ahead. I doubt you will change my mind.


@Porcelain 

 

Not coming from anywhere. Only asking you to explain to whom your comments were directed.

 

As I've never killed an elephant, I have no feeling about it. I do value (most) human life over that of animals.

I have no interest in changing your mind. 


@esme, I don't think that not having ever killed an elephant is a prequisite to having feelings about such kills.


@suzyQ3  Thank you for your opinion.

 

It sounds like they have become a danger to people, at least one man has died.  So how about the second sentence in the paragraph...the value of human life over animals.  Comment? 

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@esme  the article I posted, (post # 40) stated..

 

 They have become a danger to the people living there.

Elephants roaming the country have killed 36 people over the past two years. 

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@esme wrote:

@suzyQ3 wrote:

@esme wrote:

@Porcelain wrote:

@esme wrote:

@Porcelain wrote:

@esme wrote:

I asked seriously why this was being allowed...and someone found it inappropriate?

 

I'll try again.  

Why is this being allowed?  It isn't to raise money for the government as environmentalists wanted to buy the permits and not use them but they were not allowed to.  Maybe it's government's effort to support the expedition operators?  That doesn't sound reasonable either.

 

Has anyone read the purpose of this?  Surely it isn't to control the population...is it?

 


Feel free to go destroy an elephant. You don't need an excuse. You can destroy a lot of beautiful things and no one can stop you. We all can. Yet only a few of us do. There are many good reasons so few of us do.


@Porcelain For clarification...since you quoted me, does "you" mean me specifically?  Or do you mean everyone?


I have no idea where you are coming from. If you wish to share how you feel about killing elephants, go right ahead. I doubt you will change my mind.


@Porcelain 

 

Not coming from anywhere. Only asking you to explain to whom your comments were directed.

 

As I've never killed an elephant, I have no feeling about it. I do value (most) human life over that of animals.

I have no interest in changing your mind. 


@esme, I don't think that not having ever killed an elephant is a prequisite to having feelings about such kills.


@suzyQ3  Thank you for your opinion.

 

It sounds like they have become a danger to people, at least one man has died.  So how about the second sentence in the paragraph...the value of human life over animals.  Comment? 


@esme, wild animals will kill humans, especially when they feel threatened. As we encroach more and more on their territory, this has become an ongoing problem as how to control them with harming them or leaving people vulnerable.

 

When we were in Tanzania, we visited several preserves. The animals are in the wild but protected. When were were not on protected land (our lodging, mostly), there are steps taken to avoid harm to humans.

 

I don't know exactly where humans are being killed. I don't know what safety measured they have taken. That would be important information. I can tell you that we saw Masiai everywhere herding their livestock in areas where there are elephants, so there have to be ways to coexist. Here is an excellent article from National Geographic on this very topic.


~Who in the world am I? Ah, that's the great puzzle~ Lewis Carroll, Alice in Wonderland
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                                                       QUOTE

 

'Yes, but humans are more important than animals,' said Brutha.

'This is a point of view often expressed by humans,' said Om.

 

 

Terry Pratchett Novelist, Small Gods

Love to be home . . . thus the screen name. Joined 2003.
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I'm not able to provide a link, so I just copied it..

 

June,15,2019

Botswana Government twitter ...This is a government page ..providing information to locals..tips on how they can live in peace with elephants.

 

MORE ELEPHANT TRAMPLINGS |The public is advised of the unfortunate killing of two men this week by elephants. 

 
The unfortunate incidents occurred in Gunitshoga, a village in the Okavango panhandle area, and in the lands of Kutamogoree a village in the central district area.
 
These deaths occur hardly a week since a man was killed by an elephant whilst gathering firewood with others in Semolale.
 
Mr. Nthetsang Kompone of Eretsha village was killed on the 12th June 2019 in Gunitsoga. The tragedy happened while he was travelling to Gunitsoga for a funeral.
 
The second casualty hailed from Kutamogoree village, he was attacked and killed at Kutamogoree lands on 13th June 2019.
 
A wounded elephant, shot the day before when it raided their crop fields, killed the deceased, a man aged between 55 and 60 years.
 
Witnesses of the incident reported that the elephant dropped dead a few meters after stepping on and squashing the victim who had fallen down whilst running for his life when the elephant charged.
 
The names of the deceased are being withheld until the next of kin have been informed. The Ministry extends deepest condolences to the families of the deceased. Police investigations on the two deaths are still ongoing.
 
Community members, especially those living in areas with elephants, are encouraged to be extra cautious at all times, to reduce chances of elephant attacks where possible.
 
To reduce incidences whilst on foot the following is advised: • Wear dark colours, so that you are not easily seen by elephants. • Avoid walking with dogs; they make noise, which agitates the elephants, leading to possible attack.
 
Pay attention to wind direction, make sure you are on the downside of the wind. Elephants have a great sense of smell and can move fast, with speeds reaching 40km per an hour, often catching victims by surprise.
 
The public is further advised that should there be need to protect themselves, others and their property as per the Wildlife Conservation and National Parks Act appropriate equipment and skilled personnel must be used.
 
Allowing unskilled individuals to kill wild animals will result in wounding of the animals, therefore creating an even more dangerous situation for the community.
 
Citizens are encouraged to call the nearest Police Station, Wildlife office or any security forces close by when their property is threatened by dangerous animals.