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02-11-2020 11:23 PM
@Drythe wrote:
@kitcat51 wrote:
@suzyQ3 wrote:
@kitcat51 wrote:People in this country go nuts over just spotting coyotes in their neighborhood. I understand the concern when these large animals threaten people & hope they use the funds to fight the horrible problem of poaching. I don't like it either but I don't live there & it's their resource.
@kitcat51There is no indication in the article that people are threatened by the elephants. Of course they are wild animals, which I don't think necessitates slaughter.
As for hoping the funds go to the problem of poaching? It seems the height or irony to kill them to protect them from being killed.
We spoke (through a translator) with one of the head people in charge of catching poachers in the part of Tanzania in which we were traveling. They are diligent in their response to the tragedy. He said that his men shoot to kill, and he wasn't talking about the elephants.
The article I read said they were a problem for farmers, people live on farms. Would you prefer the herd was culled by the government or by hunting fees that could fund the fight against poachers. Poaching is an awful problem that takes the lives of so many animals & poachers should be killed on the spot. It would be a great idea for preserves to join together & share money to fight the problem & if limited hunting is going to happen charge huge fees to fund it...$39,000 isn't enough. These animals are their resource to do as the please, tourism & hunting could work together...I don't like it but it's reality.
I would prefer that they be transported to another location.
Personally, I do not consider living beings as resources.
Of course they're a resource...they're used for tourism & labor in some countries.
02-11-2020 11:56 PM
An interesting article discussing some efforts toward solving these issues with the least harm to the elephant, with contraception so far being the most effective means, but not at all easy.
I hope the authors sent this to Botswana's president, and maybe even set up a fund to help finance it. (If the country insists on an elephant bounty, as horrific as it is, I hope someone advises the Botswana president to use the money for contraception before this "bounty" practice goes too far.)
Why are people supposed to be the superior ones with all the rights? I have never and never will agree with that. We are supposed to live in harmony.
ohiostate.pressbooks DOT pub/sciencebites/chapter/elephant-contraception-possible-solution-for-south-africas-elephant-problem
02-12-2020 12:14 AM - edited 02-12-2020 12:16 AM
"Out" the hunters. Publish their names in the NYT, LA Times, and/or WSJ. They are most likely corporate types and this would affect their business. Do you remember the dentist a few years back in the midwest that was outed with a picture of him displaying his kill with an asinine grin? Absolutely revolting.
dee
02-12-2020 09:23 AM - edited 02-12-2020 11:36 AM
@Porcelain wrote:
@esmerelda wrote:
@Porcelain wrote:
@esmerelda wrote:I asked seriously why this was being allowed...and someone found it inappropriate?
I'll try again.
Why is this being allowed? It isn't to raise money for the government as environmentalists wanted to buy the permits and not use them but they were not allowed to. Maybe it's government's effort to support the expedition operators? That doesn't sound reasonable either.
Has anyone read the purpose of this? Surely it isn't to control the population...is it?
Feel free to go destroy an elephant. You don't need an excuse. You can destroy a lot of beautiful things and no one can stop you. We all can. Yet only a few of us do. There are many good reasons so few of us do.
@Porcelain For clarification...since you quoted me, does "you" mean me specifically? Or do you mean everyone?
I have no idea where you are coming from. If you wish to share how you feel about killing elephants, go right ahead. I doubt you will change my mind.
Not coming from anywhere. Only asking you to explain to whom your comments were directed.
As I've never killed an elephant, I have no feeling about it. I do value (most) human life over that of animals.
I have no interest in changing your mind.
02-12-2020 04:44 PM
@esmerelda wrote:
@Porcelain wrote:
@esmerelda wrote:
@Porcelain wrote:
@esmerelda wrote:I asked seriously why this was being allowed...and someone found it inappropriate?
I'll try again.
Why is this being allowed? It isn't to raise money for the government as environmentalists wanted to buy the permits and not use them but they were not allowed to. Maybe it's government's effort to support the expedition operators? That doesn't sound reasonable either.
Has anyone read the purpose of this? Surely it isn't to control the population...is it?
Feel free to go destroy an elephant. You don't need an excuse. You can destroy a lot of beautiful things and no one can stop you. We all can. Yet only a few of us do. There are many good reasons so few of us do.
@Porcelain For clarification...since you quoted me, does "you" mean me specifically? Or do you mean everyone?
I have no idea where you are coming from. If you wish to share how you feel about killing elephants, go right ahead. I doubt you will change my mind.
Not coming from anywhere. Only asking you to explain to whom your comments were directed.
As I've never killed an elephant, I have no feeling about it. I do value (most) human life over that of animals.
I have no interest in changing your mind.
@esmerelda, I don't think that not having ever killed an elephant is a prequisite to having feelings about such kills.
02-12-2020 07:07 PM
@suzyQ3 wrote:
@esmerelda wrote:
@Porcelain wrote:
@esmerelda wrote:
@Porcelain wrote:
@esmerelda wrote:I asked seriously why this was being allowed...and someone found it inappropriate?
I'll try again.
Why is this being allowed? It isn't to raise money for the government as environmentalists wanted to buy the permits and not use them but they were not allowed to. Maybe it's government's effort to support the expedition operators? That doesn't sound reasonable either.
Has anyone read the purpose of this? Surely it isn't to control the population...is it?
Feel free to go destroy an elephant. You don't need an excuse. You can destroy a lot of beautiful things and no one can stop you. We all can. Yet only a few of us do. There are many good reasons so few of us do.
@Porcelain For clarification...since you quoted me, does "you" mean me specifically? Or do you mean everyone?
I have no idea where you are coming from. If you wish to share how you feel about killing elephants, go right ahead. I doubt you will change my mind.
Not coming from anywhere. Only asking you to explain to whom your comments were directed.
As I've never killed an elephant, I have no feeling about it. I do value (most) human life over that of animals.
I have no interest in changing your mind.
@esmerelda, I don't think that not having ever killed an elephant is a prequisite to having feelings about such kills.
@suzyQ3 Thank you for your opinion.
It sounds like they have become a danger to people, at least one man has died. So how about the second sentence in the paragraph...the value of human life over animals. Comment?
02-13-2020 12:38 AM
@esmerelda the article I posted, (post # 40) stated..
They have become a danger to the people living there.
Elephants roaming the country have killed 36 people over the past two years.
02-13-2020 12:58 PM
@esmerelda wrote:
@suzyQ3 wrote:
@esmerelda wrote:
@Porcelain wrote:
@esmerelda wrote:
@Porcelain wrote:
@esmerelda wrote:I asked seriously why this was being allowed...and someone found it inappropriate?
I'll try again.
Why is this being allowed? It isn't to raise money for the government as environmentalists wanted to buy the permits and not use them but they were not allowed to. Maybe it's government's effort to support the expedition operators? That doesn't sound reasonable either.
Has anyone read the purpose of this? Surely it isn't to control the population...is it?
Feel free to go destroy an elephant. You don't need an excuse. You can destroy a lot of beautiful things and no one can stop you. We all can. Yet only a few of us do. There are many good reasons so few of us do.
@Porcelain For clarification...since you quoted me, does "you" mean me specifically? Or do you mean everyone?
I have no idea where you are coming from. If you wish to share how you feel about killing elephants, go right ahead. I doubt you will change my mind.
Not coming from anywhere. Only asking you to explain to whom your comments were directed.
As I've never killed an elephant, I have no feeling about it. I do value (most) human life over that of animals.
I have no interest in changing your mind.
@esmerelda, I don't think that not having ever killed an elephant is a prequisite to having feelings about such kills.
@suzyQ3 Thank you for your opinion.
It sounds like they have become a danger to people, at least one man has died. So how about the second sentence in the paragraph...the value of human life over animals. Comment?
@esmerelda, wild animals will kill humans, especially when they feel threatened. As we encroach more and more on their territory, this has become an ongoing problem as how to control them with harming them or leaving people vulnerable.
When we were in Tanzania, we visited several preserves. The animals are in the wild but protected. When were were not on protected land (our lodging, mostly), there are steps taken to avoid harm to humans.
I don't know exactly where humans are being killed. I don't know what safety measured they have taken. That would be important information. I can tell you that we saw Masiai everywhere herding their livestock in areas where there are elephants, so there have to be ways to coexist. Here is an excellent article from National Geographic on this very topic.
02-13-2020 02:35 PM
'Yes, but humans are more important than animals,' said Brutha.
| |
Terry Pratchett Novelist, Small Gods
02-13-2020 03:22 PM
I'm not able to provide a link, so I just copied it..
June,15,2019
Botswana Government twitter ...This is a government page ..providing information to locals..tips on how they can live in peace with elephants.
MORE ELEPHANT TRAMPLINGS |The public is advised of the unfortunate killing of two men this week by elephants.
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