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Respected Contributor
Posts: 2,664
Registered: ‎05-13-2010

Re: New rip off - the facility fee

@Carmie @151949  Eek, this facility is not Medicare approved!  Yet the dr. is in the network.  It is like a bait and switch and the Advantage program should take him off their list.  Some network, that.

Honored Contributor
Posts: 18,840
Registered: ‎10-25-2010

Re: New rip off - the facility fee


@DiAnne wrote:

@september wrote:

@Pitzel wrote:

@151949

My internist's office just told me that they are going to charge $200.00 a year for filling out paperwork, doctor talking to patients on the phone and other miscellaneous things.  I think this is absolutely ridiculous.  And insurance doesn't cover this.


Most of the long time physicians where I live are now in concierge plans.  We pay $1800/year, not covered by insurance.  Thank you ACA!


@september

 

Then do they bill your insurance also?  That does not sound ethical.  

 


Did you know that if you join an ambulance association in your community, they will take your money for dues and when you have ambulance services, they bill your insurance company too and get reimbursed.

 

perfectly legal.

Honored Contributor
Posts: 9,594
Registered: ‎03-09-2010

Re: New rip off - the facility fee

I learn something new every day.  "Ambulance association"....have never heard of this before!

Honored Contributor
Posts: 10,620
Registered: ‎09-22-2010

Re: New rip off - the facility fee

[ Edited ]

@september wrote:

I learn something new every day.  "Ambulance association"....have never heard of this before!


@september

 

I have never heard of that either.  The Medic One sends ambulances in my area and they are part of the Fire Department.  

 

I have heard of concierge medicine.  They advertise that they will make house calls, etc.  I know some people in nursing homes use them but I did not realize they also billed insurance.  Glad I don't have to deal with any of that.  

Honored Contributor
Posts: 18,840
Registered: ‎10-25-2010

Re: New rip off - the facility fee


@september wrote:

I learn something new every day.  "Ambulance association"....have never heard of this before!


They are common where I live.  Communities have volunteer ambulance service usually part of the volunteer fire departments, though some communities contract with paid ambulance services agencies.  You can join for about $50 single or $100 a family.  You are then able to get "free medical emergency" ambulance service for a year.

 

Where my sister lives, the fee is listed separately with her real estate taxes and payment is mandatory.

 

What they don't tell you is that if you have health insurance they will submit a bill and take payment.  I think it is underhanded, but it is legal.

 

 

 

 

 

Honored Contributor
Posts: 18,840
Registered: ‎10-25-2010

Re: New rip off - the facility fee


@KarenQVC wrote:

@Carmie @151949  Eek, this facility is not Medicare approved!  Yet the dr. is in the network.  It is like a bait and switch and the Advantage program should take him off their list.  Some network, that.


If he is a good doctor, why would he be removed from the list of network doctors?  Doctors are independent and can practice in any office, group or facility that they want to.  

 

Doctors are into double dipping.  They own the labs and now the facilities.  Here in PA you have a choice of not using the lab owned by your doctor if you wish.

 

Some doctor owned facilities are Medicare approved, some are not.  They have to meet certain guidelines.  I don't know offhand what they are.

 

Medical insurance is getting so complicated, mostly from the HIPAA laws, not the Affordable Care Act as most people think.

 

There are too many regulations and not enough common sense.

Honored Contributor
Posts: 25,929
Registered: ‎03-09-2010

Re: New rip off - the facility fee


@september wrote:

@Pitzel wrote:

@151949

My internist's office just told me that they are going to charge $200.00 a year for filling out paperwork, doctor talking to patients on the phone and other miscellaneous things.  I think this is absolutely ridiculous.  And insurance doesn't cover this.


Most of the long time physicians where I live are now in concierge plans.  We pay $1800/year, not covered by insurance.  Thank you ACA!


This has absolutely nothing to do with the ACA - it is unethical doctors taking advantage of fearful patients.

Honored Contributor
Posts: 24,294
Registered: ‎03-09-2010

Re: New rip off - the facility fee


@151949 wrote:

@september wrote:

@Pitzel wrote:

@151949

My internist's office just told me that they are going to charge $200.00 a year for filling out paperwork, doctor talking to patients on the phone and other miscellaneous things.  I think this is absolutely ridiculous.  And insurance doesn't cover this.


Most of the long time physicians where I live are now in concierge plans.  We pay $1800/year, not covered by insurance.  Thank you ACA!


This has absolutely nothing to do with the ACA - it is unethical doctors taking advantage of fearful patients.


I wouldn't say it has nothing to do with the ACA. The ACA shifted a lot of costs onto private docs and many were forced into making an uncomfortable choice between joining a medical group, retiring, or finding a way to get more money upfront to help offset the increased costs, and concierge medicine is one way to do that. Digitizing all medical records was one such cost imposed by the ACA. 

 

To give you some idea of the costs involved, in California they're digtizing the medical records of 130,000 inmates. The total cost (as of 12/11/2016) was $400 million. That's $3,076.92 per inmate for people who are generally healthy and have minimal medical records. If you're a private practice doctor with hundreds/thousands of patients many of whom are quite sickly and have big files, and you're looking at a similar cost per patient, your options are very limited. (Here's a link to the article about the cost of digitizing the prison medical records.  http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2016/12/11/california-prison-medical-record-cost-doubles/

 

My Mom's old cardiologist had to join a group as the cost of putting all of his patient records into a computerized system would have bankrupted him. He had a small two person staff and thousands of files each containing dozens, if not hundreds of tests results and reports that would all have to be placed into a computerized system within a relatively short timeline. The price he was quoted by the various agencies in the area to digitize his records was more than he could afford. His patients were mostly all on Medcare/Medicaid so his rates were largely fixed and he couldn't pass on the cost to his patients. There aren't enough well-to-do patients in the area for him to go the concierge route, so he had to join a medical group and give up his private practice.

 

That was all a result of the ACA and its requirement to digitize all medical records. The costs that imposed on many physicians was absurdly high. A local lawyer Mom's cardiologist consulted advised him that he would have to pay someone to do it as if he used his staff and something was entered inaccurately or overlooked, his office could be held responsible and sued. By using an outside firm to digitize the records they'd be responsible for any mistake and not his office. He was also advised to keep and maintain his written records to prove that his data was correct if there should be an issue down the road. 

 

The ACA created a lot of problems for a lot of people and was far from a panacea. It forced some doctors out of the business completely and forced many others into big changes in how they practice medicine.

Fly!!! Eagles!!! Fly!!!
Valued Contributor
Posts: 658
Registered: ‎09-01-2016

Re: New rip off - the facility fee

I only read through the first couple pages so maybe this was already said.

 

I wonder if people don't even read their bills and look at each charge. Facility fees are not new. the hospital I use (Cleveland Clinic) has been charging them for close to 10 years and so are the other large hospitals here.

 

I worked as a Compliance Specialist when all this started and remember these ridiculous fees coming about. Doctors who work in hospitals are employees, they di not own the practice. So bascially, they are using the hospital's facilities to run their practice. Since they do not pay rent, the hospital gets to charge a facility fee. Doctors who work in private practices in some small medical building (of which tere are very few left here)pay their own rent to the landlord and things like medical malpractice, which hospital doctors do not. That's one reason so many small time docs sell their practices and join up with hospitals.

 

Anyway,thank the AMA for coming up with another celever way to charge patients for these things. When they first started, my facility charged $59. Now it is $185 I think. Insurance including Medicare does pay the fee, you pay your portion of whatever that is 20% or less if you have supplemental insurance since they pay their portion too, Between Medicare and my supplemental, all the facility fee charges I incurred last year were paid, I paid nothing. 

Valued Contributor
Posts: 658
Registered: ‎09-01-2016

Re: New rip off - the facility fee


@Carmie wrote:

This is nothing new.  The "facility" is an outpatient surgical center that is owned by a group of doctors.

 

Most of these facilities do not meet the guidelines to be covered by Medicare and almost all insurance companies follow Medicare guidelines.

 

The insurance company I worked for used to deny claims for these facility services.

You  should be happy they told you upfront.  Some of these places don't and you get stuck with a bill you hadn't planned on paying.

 

There is no new law allowing them to charge this fee, but perhaps there is a law that they have to advise you of the fee beforehand 

 

You are wise in looking for a different facility to have the service done.  Does your DH's doctor have privileges to work at another Outpatient surgical center.... perhaps one that is affiliated with a hospital?


then that would be like saying before you had any services performed, a billing person would have to know the charges upfront, what the doctor/hospital will be putting on the chargeticket and give you the costs. No one is going to do that.

 

I just say my PCP for my annual physical, my bill included labwork, her office visit charge, 2 xrays, the reading of the x-rays and the facility fee. Now before I went for the visit, how would anyone know what was going to be done and what those charges would be. Inpatient bills of course are a nightmare because there are medications, consultations with other specialists, labs, radiology, room fees, and who knows what else.

 

Be thankful you even have insurance these days. Self pay people would get charged the full boat with no isurnace discounts and they would be expected to pay the whole thing, unless they just ignore the bills and let them go into bad debt.