Community Chat

[tansy]

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@Oostende wrote:

I would guess people who say dogs in Europe aren't an enormous problem have never lived in Europe.  I have.  (My nic is the name of one of the towns where I lived.)

Dog manure on the streets of Paris is a notorious health and safety problem.  There are articles over there about it all the time.  People slip in the stuff and crack bones, especially the elderly.  The amount spent to clean the streets is enormous.  Many people refuse to curb their dogs.

My very first meal at an expensive restaurant in Belgium was interrupted by a dog fight behind me.  It was not the only time that happened.

Closer to home, a beloved bookstore in Durango, Colorado was sued when a customer stepped in a water bowl that the establishment had placed out for the dogs on a hot summer day.  The customer broke an ankle and won substantial damages.

By the way, I am surprised anyone would think that cleaning up dog feces or barf is a job that belonged to anyone other than the owner.

Leave the dogs at home.

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I wholeheartedly agree that cleaning up after a pet is the owner’s duty.  I would clean up after a grandchild, too.  

[Spurt]

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@chrystaltree wrote:

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@stevieb wrote:

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@chrystaltree wrote:

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@Trinity11 wrote:

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@Drlinda wrote:

In Europe dogs go everywhere.  Saw one on an escalator in a department store. Doesn’t seem to be any problems as they are well behaved.

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I was in Bloomingdales where a pup had an accident and also threw up. I felt sorry for the person who was cleaning it up. 

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       How is that diferent than if a paying customer vomited?  Stuff happens and people get paid to clean it up.

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Possibly because the dog isn't a paying customer. He or she is the pet of a paying customer... There really is a distinction...

Only for people who don't like dogs....LOL   If my 2 year old grandaughter makes a mess in a store, they clean and she's not the customer.  I am.  The fact is there's no controversy at all with retailers, it's on a few vocal dog haters and no one really listens to them....as evidenced by the number of dogs who are sharing our world with us.

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Even if a dog is well trained and well behaved what about people that are highly allergic to dogs and get sick? Or a child walks up to a dog in a store pulls the dogs ear or tail and gets bit....both the store and dog owner can be sued....While a service dog is highly trained to handle these circumstances, a pet will just react and defend themselves....And if a store is sued, they will pass that expense along and ALL of us end up paying higher prices just because someone wanted to take their pet shopping????..

And I think the main reason people take their dog shopping is the attention the person gets  

[CinNC]

I'm a huge dog lover........this past week we've been to Lowe's quite a bit due to our minor home renovations.  3 times I've seen people walking their dogs around the store.......men w/german shepherds, labs, huskies.......a few times smaller dogs being carried by their owners. Not the place for them. 

I don't see any of the new rules being enforced and my guess is the rules won't be until somebody complains or gets hurt. 

[SharkE]

LOL When I leave the house I want to leave the phone, husband, animals and if I had any , kids at home.

Me, time.... I don't want to be tethered to anything.

[dooBdoo]

Here's some clarification from the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA):

"...II. Service Animal Defined by Title II and Title III of the ADA

A service animal means any dog that is individually trained to do work or perform tasks for the benefit of an individual with a disability, including a physical, sensory, psychiatric, intellectual, or other mental disability. 

Tasks performed can include, among other things, pulling a wheelchair, retrieving dropped items, alerting a person to a sound, reminding a person to take medication, or pressing an elevator button.

Emotional support animals, comfort animals, and therapy dogs are not service animals under Title II and Title III of the ADA.

Other species of animals, whether wild or domestic, trained or untrained, are not considered service animals either.

The work or tasks performed by a service animal must be directly related to the individual’s disability.

It does not matter if a person has a note from a doctor that states that the person has a disability and needs to have the animal for emotional support.

A doctor’s letter does not turn an animal into a service animal.

Examples of animals that fit the ADA’s definition of “service animal” because they have been specifically trained to perform a task for the person with a disability:

          · Guide Dog or Seeing Eye® Dog1 is a carefully trained dog that serves as a travel tool for persons who have severe visual impairments or are blind.

          · Hearing or Signal Dog is a dog that has been trained to alert a person who has a significant hearing loss or is deaf when a sound occurs, such as a knock on the door.

          · Psychiatric Service Dog is a dog that has been trained to perform tasks that assist individuals with disabilities to detect the onset of psychiatric episodes and lessen their effects.    Tasks performed by psychiatric service animals may include reminding the handler to take medicine, providing safety checks or room searches, or turning on lights for persons with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, interrupting self-mutilation by persons with dissociative identity disorders, and keeping disoriented individuals from danger.

          · SSigDOG (sensory signal dogs or social signal dog) is a dog trained to assist a person with autism.    The dog alerts the handler to distracting repetitive movements common among those with autism, allowing the person to stop the movement (e.g., hand flapping).

          · Seizure Response Dog is a dog trained to assist a person with a seizure disorder.    How the dog serves the person depends on the person’s needs.    The dog may stand guard over the person during a seizure or the dog may go for help.    A few dogs have learned to predict a seizure and warn the person in advance to sit down or move to a safe place.

Under Title II and III of the ADA, service animals are limited to dogs. However, entities must make reasonable modifications in policies to allow individuals with disabilities to use miniature horses if they have been individually trained to do work or perform tasks for individuals with disabilities.

III. Other Support or Therapy Animals

While Emotional Support Animals or Comfort Animals are often used as part of a medical treatment plan as therapy animals, they are not considered service animals under the ADA. 

These support animals provide companionship, relieve loneliness, and sometimes help with depression, anxiety, and certain phobias, but do not have special training to perform tasks that assist people with disabilities.

Even though some states have laws defining therapy animals, these animals are not limited to working with people with disabilities and therefore are not covered by federal laws protecting the use of service animals. 

Therapy animals provide people with therapeutic contact, usually in a clinical setting, to improve their physical, social, emotional, and/or cognitive functioning..."

source:

https://adata.org/publication/service-animals-booklet

[Spurt]

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@Ms tyrion2 wrote:

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@Spurt wrote:

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@Ms tyrion2 wrote:

Dogs in stores is just not something that concerns me.

I've never seen one misbehave. I'm sure it happens now and then and people jump at the chance to tell of it. Just not something I've ever seen.

I don't think twice about a dog in a basket at the grocery store. Babies sit in those things with dirty diapers. I just use the wipes provided. 

There is a lot in the world that distresses me. This isn't one of them.

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Babies in diapers vs pets inside a grocery cart---

The babies in diapers are wearing Clothes over their diapers..I havent seen any in just a diaper.  Most babies are also in a car seat or carrier...Also I dont know too many babies that fleas, tapeworms, ticks, mites...And a babies bare "hole" isnt touching the inside of a cart.

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Fleas, ticks, tapeworms, mites, bare holes--oh My!

I would just stay home if I were you.  😁

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No I think the DOG should stay home!  🐶

[willdob3]

@homedecor1

I like the sign but how will they enforce it? The law is the same & the ones breaking it knew they were breaking it before. I don’t see the new sign suddenly making them into law abiding citizens.

[willdob3]

If we’re being perfectly honest, babies don’t belong in stores either. It will never happen, but I’d be fine if they were not allowed. lol

[GraceLady]

The difference between a service dog and an emotional support dog is that a service dog is highly trained to recognize and respond to a disabled person's needs.  They must be able to perform tasks the owner has difficulty doing, or cannot do, or recognize oncoming medical emergencies and act.  Their behavior must be impeccable.

An emotional support dog, while prescribed by a mental health professional, do not have any special training.  Their purpose is to be available to provide comfort when a person is anxious or to provide companionship.  There is no requirement as to the animal's behavior in public.  

Service animals are allowed in all public spaces by law under ADA.  Emotional support animals are not afforded this same consideration as they are considered pets.  

"Americans With Disabilities cites that emotional support dogs or animals do not have the training to do specific tasks in assisting a person with disability or impairment, unlike service animals. Hence, the pets may not be allowed to accompany their owner in public places ie. restaurants, stores, hotels. However, certain states provide their own laws about bringing emotional support dogs in public places. It is advisable to check with your local government for the rules that could apply to your predicament."

[Harvard99]

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@chrystaltree wrote:

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@stevieb wrote:

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@chrystaltree wrote:

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@Trinity11 wrote:

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@Drlinda wrote:

In Europe dogs go everywhere.  Saw one on an escalator in a department store. Doesn’t seem to be any problems as they are well behaved.

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I was in Bloomingdales where a pup had an accident and also threw up. I felt sorry for the person who was cleaning it up. 

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       How is that diferent than if a paying customer vomited?  Stuff happens and people get paid to clean it up.

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Possibly because the dog isn't a paying customer. He or she is the pet of a paying customer... There really is a distinction...

Only for people who don't like dogs....LOL   If my 2 year old grandaughter makes a mess in a store, they clean and she's not the customer.  I am.  The fact is there's no controversy at all with retailers, it's on a few vocal dog haters and no one really listens to them....as evidenced by the number of dogs who are sharing our world with us.

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This is a TRUE story.  I was in Ikea last year and a very fashionably dressed younger woman had her smallish "designer" dog on a leash.. The dog crouched down and left a bowel movement on the floor.  An employee saw this and politely asked the dog owner, who was walking away, to please clean it up.  The owner said to him loudly, "It's your job, you clean it up" and then the employee went back at her and said "No, it's not!"

I was shocked when I saw the woman pull down a 10 foot paper banner above her head, tried to toss it at the worker and said to the him, "Here, let me help you out."  And she went on her way.  I stood there with my mouth open.

@chrystaltree  I'm curious to know the names of the stores where your 2 YO GD can make a mess and you think that the employees are responsible for cleaning it up?