Community Chat

[terrier3]

On 4/11/2015 raven-blackbird said:

a broken tail light...yes........but then, if you're a cop and just pulled a guy over for a broken tail light......he tells you he doesn't have his ins. in the car but hands you his drivers license.......then gets out of the car when you're running his license.....then just takes off........the question you'd ask yourself........why is he running, it's just a broken tail light.

cops pull over people for vehicle infractions all the time, only to find out the person is wanted for something huge.........sometimes it goes down easy........and sometimes it goes down hard.......just depends on the person they are stopping............................raven

Huh?

It is illegal, in almost all instances, for an officer (or anyone else) to shoot a fleeing person in the back. That person poses NO danger to your life.

"Why is he running, it's just a broken taillight" - is just a question. It doesn't allow an officer to assume the guy is a threat to him or anyone else.

The day we allow officers to make life and death decisions based on their assumptions...or condone arrests "going down hard" is the day we become a police state, not a free nation.

[Mominohio]

On 4/11/2015 terrier3 said:

On 4/11/2015 mominohio said:

That may well have happened, but I'd not convict the cop yet, as no one has the right to do that either, just the jury and the legal process. We are all assuming that he 'staged the death scene. At this point even the videos aren't telling the whole story, and those stringing the cop up before his due process are just as bad as he is for what he did.

Just as bad as he is?

I don't think so. The local DA is bringing him up on murder charges. His own lawyer quit.

He shot an INNOCENT man in the back numerous times...then tried to plant "evidence" next to the man...then refused to help him and watched him die (and lied about not helping him on his official report.)

It's not an assumption to say he "staged the scene." He went over to the helpless dying (or dead) man, cuffed him, then went back, got the taser and threw it next to the body. I know what I saw...it was totally clear.

Why are you defending this monster?

Why are you assuming the deceased man is innocent? He had a warrant, he was told to stay, he ran. All those things contributed to the cop's state of mind during this altercation.

And what you see in the citizen video is a cop picking up something and dropping it by the man who was shot. What exactly it was has not been proven. How it got on the ground has not been proven. Did the man who was shot actually, at some point get the stun gun away from the officer and drop it? Did the officer drop it?

I don't think any of those questions are yet answered, and I find it amazing how many people think it is already cut and dried and done.

Certainly wouldn't want any such people on my jury.

Regardless of how the evidence and events play out, my most basic point still will stand. The man is dead, at least in part because of actions he took. He bears some responsibility in his own death. Much like someone who chooses to get drunk, and cross a three lane highway and gets hit. Does anyone plan to do something stupid or dangerous, not usually, but it still can lead to dire consequences, and the person bears some responsibility for the situation in which they put themselves.

He didn't do whatever he was supposed to in connection to the case for which the warrant was issued. He drove a car that attracted attention to be stopped. He didn't do as told by an officer while stopped, and he ran. He may have done more if there is a gap between videos, and only time may tell that scenario. He was not an innocent victim, gunned down for absolutely no reason. May not have been enough of a reason, but he is still culpable.

[Mominohio]

On 4/11/2015 terrier3 said:

On 4/11/2015 Qwackertoo said:

It is sorta like the "driving while stupid" when teens or even adults text and drive and get themselves killed or others also killed in the process. That one little text that probably was insignificant and could have waited may have cost themselves and other innocent people their lives.

Or college girls who drink to excess "drinking while stupid" and get themselves killed in the process. Too many turn up missing and their remains are found weeks & months later.

And in this case "running from the police while stupid" . . . NO the policeman should NOT have shot him while posing no great threat to himself or the public. But he did. And the man is now dead. And the policeman's life is pretty much over as a free man.

I think that is sorta maybe what mominohio is getting at. Maybe.

Running from the police should NEVER lead to being shot in the back.

Never.

That breaks every rule from every police department in the USA. Which is why he needed to "plant" the taser next to the body - to cover up what he did.

The policeman's life isn't over - but his victim's life IS.

No sympathy from me for what he did.

Oh so foolish to use the never word.

What about someone running from police spraying bullets in a crowd?

What about someone running from police with a bomb strapped to their chest, headed into a crowded school?

What about.... well you get it.

The never doesn't exist in real life. Perhaps he would have been better served to NEVER put himself on the wrong side of the law, and even open up the possibility of being in the place to allow what occurred to have happened.

[scotttie]

Mominohio, I really, really think that adrenaline kicked in with the guy who ran. You are right, when stopped by an officer anyone should be careful to do exactly as they are told. However, I would hope that police officers are trained to be aware of the "adrenaline" factor in those they stop and take that into account when they pursue.

I really hope it turns out that there was more to the story because it is devastating to think that this officer would shoot that man down in the back for no more reason than his own adrenaline kicked in.

Our police officers are our own lifelines in emergencies and they put their lives on the line every day. However, in this case it does appear that this officer did not follow protocol (getting backup first) and now he himself is going to suffer the consequences as well as the dead man.

One wonders how much ongoing training police officers receive. I know that where I live there are many various departments where there are officers who have no business with a badge.

Most are silent heroes I bellieve however and God Bless them.

[Mominohio]

On 4/11/2015 terrier3 said:

On 4/11/2015 mominohio said:

If this is directed at me, then show me where I stated it was his total fault he is dead. I did not. From the beginning I have said, he <em>shares</em> in the responsibility of the events that took place, and he initiated them. He exacerbated them by running, and not following the directions of the officer.

So sorry that it didn't work out for him, and it happens like that everyday in all kinds of situations not related to law enforcement. Life isn't fair, and even though we didn't do enough wrong to justify it, we get hit with things in a way bigger proportion than is fair for our input into the situation. Makes you think, that maybe we should think before we do, and just plain stand up, when we know we're busted, take responsibility for where we are with the situation, and not make it worse.

Even the man's own father said he thinks he ran because he didn't want to go to jail, he'd been there and didn't want to go back. Let's see, go to jail, or risk, in light of what is going on with these situations, make a move that could lead to death?

Nope, he didn't have long to assess the situation, try to decide how to proceed, or what the long term consequences might be with every available option. Neither did the cop.

He shares nothing.

The officer was 100% responsible for shooting an innocent man. He broke every rule in the police handbook. We don't live in a police state. They have to follow the law too.

The officer had the man's license. Even if he had a child support warrant, the police knew where he lived, they had his car and he could have been picked up later. I don't think the officer even knew about the child support - it happened too quickly.

My earlier point exactly. Why run? They had you to rights. They were going to get you on this (maybe, if the warrant wasn't served, then they were probably having trouble finding him) now or later. Stand up, be a man, and live up to your responsibility then and there. The officer in dash cam video was calm and respectful. Why run?

He CHOSE to run. He took the risk all on his own accord. I didn't see anyone egging him on. He made a stupid move and paid for it with his life. Did he pay too high a price? Of course he did, but the bottom line still remains, he made choices, clear back to what caused the issuing of the warrant. He initiated, way back then, the chain of events that ended in his death. He made choices at each point along the way. He bears some responsibility. Period.

[terrier3]

On 4/11/2015 mominohio said:

Why are you assuming the deceased man is innocent? He had a warrant, he was told to stay, he ran. All those things contributed to the cop's state of mind during this altercation.

And what you see in the citizen video is a cop picking up something and dropping it by the man who was shot. What exactly it was has not been proven. How it got on the ground has not been proven. Did the man who was shot actually, at some point get the stun gun away from the officer and drop it? Did the officer drop it?

I don't think any of those questions are yet answered, and I find it amazing how many people think it is already cut and dried and done.

Certainly wouldn't want any such people on my jury.

Regardless of how the evidence and events play out, my most basic point still will stand. The man is dead, at least in part because of actions he took. He bears some responsibility in his own death. Much like someone who chooses to get drunk, and cross a three lane highway and gets hit. Does anyone plan to do something stupid or dangerous, not usually, but it still can lead to dire consequences, and the person bears some responsibility for the situation in which they put themselves.

He didn't do whatever he was supposed to in connection to the case for which the warrant was issued. He drove a car that attracted attention to be stopped. He didn't do as told by an officer while stopped, and he ran. He may have done more if there is a gap between videos, and only time may tell that scenario. He was not an innocent victim, gunned down for absolutely no reason. May not have been enough of a reason, but he is still culpable.

He drove a car with a broken brake light. I have done that unknowingly myself. The officer stopped me and told me to get it fixed and I was on my way...no ticket, no checks.

Yes, he was an innocent victim. The officer broke every rule in his book...his superiors, his mayor, the DA - no one is defending his actions. He is being charged with murder, not even manslaughter.

The difference is that he had a lethal weapon...the man was just running away from him. The man wasn't spraying bullets into a crowd or running with a bomb...the officer had no right to assume anything. I doubt he even knew about the warrant for child support...NOT a violent crime in any case.

How you can even begin to defend this cop is beyond me...

[scotttie]

Give up mominohio. You are wasting your time with some. They refuse to read what you are actually saying.

[scotttie]

I have to say Terrier, you make up all kinds of excuses for the Boston Bomber, "he's just a teenage stoner" but yet you beat up on someone who is simply trying to sort out all the details when a police officer is involved. The police officer is not allowed his day in court but the Boston Bomber is a teenage stoner.

[Qwackertoo]

On 4/11/2015 terrier3 said:

How you can even begin to defend this cop is beyond me...

You KEEP saying that.

mominohio is NOT defending the police officer.

Have you not ever heard the saying two wrongs don't make a right?

At this point in time given the two videos, dash cam and citizen:

The officer was wrong to use deadly force.

Scott was wrong to run.

Result = Scott is Dead

Result = Police Officer will more than likely be convicted of murder

If AND Until further evidence or lack of additional evidence at the trial THEN & ONLY then can & will the police officer be judged by a jury of his peers.

That is the way it works in this country. He will be given his chance to defend his actions in a Court of Law.

[scotttie]

Bravo Quackertoo! POst of the day.