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Super Contributor
Posts: 1,057
Registered: ‎03-10-2010

Re: Is this age discrimination or ""just business?""

On 8/26/2014 WenGirl42 said:
On 8/26/2014 Dagna said:
On 8/25/2014 Ford1224 said:
On 8/25/2014 BlueCollarBabe said:
On 8/25/2014 Ford1224 said:

I don't feel I "owe" them anything, and I didn't get the policy for anything close to that reason. I wanted them to have a little something when I died . . . simple as that. I had to struggle all my life because my parents were poor (not their fault) and I wanted my kids to get a little boost at a time when they might need it.

As I just noted in another post, the article you posted is right on. That's what I bought, as did obviously thousands of others. So now I have to deal with it.

Thanks for posting it. I now have a lot of information when I call the Insurance Commission to see what they say. I doubt there's a damm thing they can do about it.

You're most welcome. Glad to read that you may have some legal recourse but I understand that you weren't in the market for another insurance battle. Good luck! {#emotions_dlg.thumbup1}

I feel I have to. I have never been good at being a "victim." I always fight. Sometimes I win, sometimes I don't . . . but I have to at least try.

What they really want is for me to drop the policy. After over $36,000 paid in, I can't do that.

My girls are calling me "Norma Rae."

This comment makes no sense.

Your cash value is gone. So how would it now help them financially for you to drop your policy?

It's not like they are going to have your $36,000 to go have a party.

Because it will mean they won't have to pay out her death benefit when the time comes; they will have collected her premiums for years and never have to pay out anything for it.

In order to continue the policy (and have the death benefit paid), she will now have to pay a higher rate.

According to your logic, they no longer want to sell policies (and pay death benefits) because the risk is too great.

If that were true, they would stop and go into another business.

Again, the premiums they already collected are GONE. They are not sitting on them.

Respected Contributor
Posts: 2,124
Registered: ‎07-05-2012

Re: Is this age discrimination or ""just business?""

On 8/26/2014 Dagna said:
On 8/26/2014 WenGirl42 said:
On 8/26/2014 Dagna said:
On 8/25/2014 Ford1224 said:
On 8/25/2014 BlueCollarBabe said:
On 8/25/2014 Ford1224 said:

I don't feel I "owe" them anything, and I didn't get the policy for anything close to that reason. I wanted them to have a little something when I died . . . simple as that. I had to struggle all my life because my parents were poor (not their fault) and I wanted my kids to get a little boost at a time when they might need it.

As I just noted in another post, the article you posted is right on. That's what I bought, as did obviously thousands of others. So now I have to deal with it.

Thanks for posting it. I now have a lot of information when I call the Insurance Commission to see what they say. I doubt there's a damm thing they can do about it.

You're most welcome. Glad to read that you may have some legal recourse but I understand that you weren't in the market for another insurance battle. Good luck! {#emotions_dlg.thumbup1}

I feel I have to. I have never been good at being a "victim." I always fight. Sometimes I win, sometimes I don't . . . but I have to at least try.

What they really want is for me to drop the policy. After over $36,000 paid in, I can't do that.

My girls are calling me "Norma Rae."

This comment makes no sense.

Your cash value is gone. So how would it now help them financially for you to drop your policy?

It's not like they are going to have your $36,000 to go have a party.

Because it will mean they won't have to pay out her death benefit when the time comes; they will have collected her premiums for years and never have to pay out anything for it.

In order to continue the policy (and have the death benefit paid), she will now have to pay a higher rate.

According to your logic, they no longer want to sell policies (and pay death benefits) because the risk is too great.

If that were true, they would stop and go into another business.

Again, the premiums they already collected are GONE. They are not sitting on them.

It's not my logic...it's how insurance works. Best case for them is collecting the premium and never having to pay out (pooled risk depends on some people needing a payout and some people not). They have benefited from collecting her premiums over the years. They didn't just invest that money on her behalf, you know. The manner in which this communication and increase occurred strongly suggest that their desired outcome is not that she pay the higher premium and continue this policy. Their actions suggest that they either want her to buy a more expensive policy (and more profitable both for themselves and the company) or just go away, never getting anything out of the money she gave them over the years.

Honored Contributor
Posts: 13,954
Registered: ‎03-10-2010

Re: Is this age discrimination or ""just business?""

On 8/26/2014 Dagna said:

This comment makes no sense.

Your cash value is gone. So how would it now help them financially for you to drop your policy?

It's not like they are going to have your $36,000 to go have a party.

Dagna -

The CASH VALUE of the policy is gone...that's the amount of premiums above and beyond what is necessary to continue having her policy remain in good standing.

Cash value is NOT the same as the amount of premiums she has paid into the policy. A big part of the premiums go towards paying the annual term life insurance part of the policy - the death benefit. That money is still in possession of the insurance company.

The target premium payment is supposed to pay for the life insurance AND have some money left on top to invest in stocks and bonds. That is what the cash value is mainly comprising. Her policies investments tanked (probably back around 2008) and wiped out her cash value and the extra money needed for premiums to cover her annual term life insurance.

The insurance company is doing just fine with her business. Don't worry about them...


Super Contributor
Posts: 1,057
Registered: ‎03-10-2010

Re: Is this age discrimination or ""just business?""

We heard this same story about the Long Term Care policy.

They didn't want to pay her. They wanted to cancel her policy - or make her pay more.

And then they worked over a holiday to expedite processing (the initial delay having been caused because they didn't have her medical reports).

In the current situation, it appears that she bought a policy that gave her lower premiums - in return for riskier investments. She admits the info was in the policy - she didn't read it.

Actually, this is not much different than the ACA "lower premiums" in return for very high deductibles - which renders some people essentially without insurance at all.

Honored Contributor
Posts: 12,997
Registered: ‎03-25-2012

Re: Is this age discrimination or ""just business?""

On 8/26/2014 Dagna said:

We heard this same story about the Long Term Care policy.

They didn't want to pay her. They wanted to cancel her policy - or make her pay more.

And then they worked over a holiday to expedite processing (the initial delay having been caused because they didn't have her medical reports).

In the current situation, it appears that she bought a policy that gave her lower premiums - in return for riskier investments. She admits the info was in the policy - she didn't read it.

Actually, this is not much different than the ACA "lower premiums" in return for very high deductibles - which renders some people essentially without insurance at all.

You should charge money for your amazing fortune telling talents. My, my, you can really read people's minds, know their intentions, and see into their past. You are also amazingly good at looking up old posts. Problem is you are always wrong. Tsk, tsk . . . too bad.

Formerly Ford1224
We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented. Elie Wiesel 1986
Honored Contributor
Posts: 13,954
Registered: ‎03-10-2010

Re: Is this age discrimination or ""just business?""

On 8/26/2014 Dagna said:

We heard this same story about the Long Term Care policy.

They didn't want to pay her. They wanted to cancel her policy - or make her pay more.

And then they worked over a holiday to expedite processing (the initial delay having been caused because they didn't have her medical reports).

In the current situation, it appears that she bought a policy that gave her lower premiums - in return for riskier investments. She admits the info was in the policy - she didn't read it.

Actually, this is not much different than the ACA "lower premiums" in return for very high deductibles - which renders some people essentially without insurance at all.

There are MANY different levels of deductibles in ACA...many policies to choose from.

You can have lower premiums and higher deductibles...or higher premiums and lower deductibles. It all depends on your tolerance for risk and how healthy you are. If you are younger and healthy, a low premium, higher deductible makes sense.

If you are older and have a chronic illness, after you crunch the numbers you may be better off with a more expensive policy with a lower deductible.

It's no different than any other health insurance policy...they have always acted that way.

Honored Contributor
Posts: 12,997
Registered: ‎03-25-2012

Re: Is this age discrimination or ""just business?""

On 8/25/2014 feline groovy said:
On 8/25/2014 Ford1224 said:
On 8/24/2014 feline groovy said:
On 8/24/2014 Dagna said:
On 8/24/2014 Deb1010again said:
On 8/24/2014 feline groovy said:

It's both, at least to me.

Money is <em>always</em> the bottom line, no matter what most companies must do to achieve it (the largest amount of revenue).

There are companies out there, however, that would never resort to bigotry or discrimination of any kind. Just not as many as we'd like.

BTW, JSS, you have a mostly-youthful spirit, and that's key. 8)

Who is "JSS" or what does it stand for? I've never heard of that abbreviation on the boards. Thanks!

Ford - Jersey Soul Sister

Smile

Feline Groovy, did you change your nic? I haven't been sure it's you for a couple of weeks now.

Yep, and I was previously "feline fine".

I did have an extra siggy ('STILL feline fine; just now with more groove') on my posts to reassure others, but recently removed it.

Guess you didn't see it, but no problem - 'tis moi. Smile

Wow, ok!! So you're still my JSS, right?

Formerly Ford1224
We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented. Elie Wiesel 1986
Super Contributor
Posts: 1,057
Registered: ‎03-10-2010

Re: Is this age discrimination or ""just business?""

On 8/26/2014 terrier3 said:
On 8/26/2014 Dagna said:

We heard this same story about the Long Term Care policy.

They didn't want to pay her. They wanted to cancel her policy - or make her pay more.

And then they worked over a holiday to expedite processing (the initial delay having been caused because they didn't have her medical reports).

In the current situation, it appears that she bought a policy that gave her lower premiums - in return for riskier investments. She admits the info was in the policy - she didn't read it.

Actually, this is not much different than the ACA "lower premiums" in return for very high deductibles - which renders some people essentially without insurance at all.

There are MANY different levels of deductibles in ACA...many policies to choose from.

You can have lower premiums and higher deductibles...or higher premiums and lower deductibles. It all depends on your tolerance for risk and how healthy you are. If you are younger and healthy, a low premium, higher deductible makes sense.

If you are older and have a chronic illness, after you crunch the numbers you may be better off with a more expensive policy with a lower deductible.

It's no different than any other health insurance policy...they have always acted that w ay.

It is different in that - in the past you could buy what you needed. Now you are forced to buy what the government says must be included - which has had the effect of raising costs (not lowering them) for many people. Which is why for many if they want lower premiums (which they could get before by simply buying lesser, but sufficient coverage), they must now pay high deductibles for the same premium.

Honored Contributor
Posts: 13,954
Registered: ‎03-10-2010

Re: Is this age discrimination or ""just business?""

On 8/26/2014 Dagna said:

It is different in that - in the past you could buy what you needed. Now you are forced to buy what the government says must be included - which has had the effect of raising costs (not lowering them) for many people. Which is why for many if they want lower premiums (which they could get before by simply buying lesser, but sufficient coverage), they must now pay high deductibles for the same premium.

People used to buy catastrophic coverage only...or Dread Disease coverage for specific illnesses (like heart disease or cancer).

What if the person with catastrophic coverage gets diabetes? He's out of luck. Or the person with cancer insurance get hit by a bus?

The ACA sets certain levels of coverage, so people won't be out in the cold.

It's crazy to have to "bet" on what type of illness you may get...or what type of coverage you may need later.

Honored Contributor
Posts: 9,875
Registered: ‎07-29-2014

Re: Is this age discrimination or ""just business?""

On 8/26/2014 Ford1224 said:
On 8/25/2014 feline groovy said:
On 8/25/2014 Ford1224 said:
On 8/24/2014 feline groovy said:
On 8/24/2014 Dagna said:
On 8/24/2014 Deb1010again said:
On 8/24/2014 feline groovy said:

It's both, at least to me.

Money is <em>always</em> the bottom line, no matter what most companies must do to achieve it (the largest amount of revenue).

There are companies out there, however, that would never resort to bigotry or discrimination of any kind. Just not as many as we'd like.

BTW, JSS, you have a mostly-youthful spirit, and that's key. 8)

Who is "JSS" or what does it stand for? I've never heard of that abbreviation on the boards. Thanks!

Ford - Jersey Soul Sister

Smile

Feline Groovy, did you change your nic? I haven't been sure it's you for a couple of weeks now.

Yep, and I was previously "feline fine".

I did have an extra siggy ('STILL feline fine; just now with more groove') on my posts to reassure others, but recently removed it.

Guess you didn't see it, but no problem - 'tis moi. Smile

Wow, ok!! So you're still my JSS, right?

Of course!

As long as you're still my JSS.

"People don't usually like to admit that luck and timing are a part of their good fortune."