Community Chat

[debic]

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@Smaug wrote:

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@debc wrote:

Also the man was not out poaching, he paid good money for the hunt.  

That kind of money does wonders for village people.  I'll assume that's why any country that allows it does.

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The money does not go to a village. It goes to the company.

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In this exact instance I have no idea, but I watch enough nature shows to know that the villages do indeed profit from these hunts.   Do they get it all, of course not, everyone gets paid.   

[Say Nay]

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@debc wrote:

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@Smaug wrote:

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@debc wrote:

Also the man was not out poaching, he paid good money for the hunt.  

That kind of money does wonders for village people.  I'll assume that's why any country that allows it does.

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The money does not go to a village. It goes to the company.

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In this exact instance I have no idea, but I watch enough nature shows to know that the villages do indeed profit from these hunts.   Do they get it all, of course not, everyone gets paid.   

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Not everyone gets paid. This is untrue. It is the company and maybe the tribal head of the vilage on the land where the hunt occured who is paid. Money is not dispensed among villagers. 

[GingerPeach]

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@debc wrote:

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@Smaug wrote:

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@debc wrote:

Also the man was not out poaching, he paid good money for the hunt.  

That kind of money does wonders for village people.  I'll assume that's why any country that allows it does.

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The money does not go to a village. It goes to the company.

....

In this exact instance I have no idea, but I watch enough nature shows to know that the villages do indeed profit from these hunts.   Do they get it all, of course not, everyone gets paid.   

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I think the point is that trophy hunting in particular is cruel, and that whether a village gets any part of the funds paid is irrelevant.  One reason this is irrelevant is that a village, indeed a nation, could get much more from tourists who come to see LIVE animals.

And please, please, don't call it "good money."  I'm sure you meant no harm and used it as a general term, but it just seems to be a bit of a misnomer here.

[edited to fix title]

[biancardi]

no, it isn't hypocritical.  I eat meat, but I have been very conscious about where I purchase my meat and how the animals are treated prior to the kill.     I have been very aware of the horrible practices done by commercial livestock farming and I have disagreed with it for decades.   This requires action by the people, because the big companies aren't going to change - you have to petition your reps if you care about it.

I can CARE about both and still eat meat.  That doesn't make me  a hypocrite, although I am sure some will immediatly jump on this thread and call me one. 

Big game trophy hunting, along with other blood "sports" with animals, is disgusting and cruel.  The money doesn't go to the village and no, it is not a time honored tradition ~ not to the indigenous people, it isn't ~ they kill either for food and use the animal completely, or if the animal is attacking their village.   Big game trophy hunting is a rich man's sport.  Yes, there are poachers who kill animals and sell the body parts to some Asian countries, as they believe those parts are medicial - THAT needs to stop as well - that is ALSO a rich man's vice (to use those expensive bits & pieces from the animal)

The dentist poached.  He was there when he witnessed them lure Cecil out of the protected area, and since he initially shot Cecil with a bow, he had to have noticed the GPS tracker.  Cecil suffered for 40 hours ~ they could have called the authorities to help Cecil once they knew this was a protected lion.   When they finally killed him, they stripped off the GPS collar ~ so they KNEW this lion was protected  at this time (if they weren't sure before) and yet, they never called the authorities

The farmer whose land that they lured Cecil onto (as it was next to the reserve) did not have a licence to hunt lions.

Yes, you can eat meat and CARE without being hypocritical.  I am not sure why this strawman argument keeps cropping up all the time.    People can walk and chew gum at the same time.    Animal activists have been very vocal about big game hunting (and yes, I know what occurs here in the states and have signed petitions, talked to my reps about it) but now with the murder of Cecil, more people are aware of the heinous nature of this so-called sport.

The only commonality between how commercial livestock is treated and poaching is that one is still legal and the other is illegal.    If people want to outlaw inhumane treatment of livestock (and don't tell us not to eat meat), that is a totally different topic, as that is legal and laws need to be created .  We already have laws on poaching.

[Lucky Charm]

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@biancardi wrote:

no, it isn't hypocritical.  I eat meat, but I have been very conscious about where I purchase my meat and how the animals are treated prior to the kill.     I have been very aware of the horrible practices done by commercial livestock farming and I have disagreed with it for decades.   This requires action by the people, because the big companies aren't going to change - you have to petition your reps if you care about it.

I can CARE about both and still eat meat.  That doesn't make me  a hypocrite, although I am sure some will immediatly jump on this thread and call me one. 

Big game trophy hunting, along with other blood "sports" with animals, is disgusting and cruel.  The money doesn't go to the village and no, it is not a time honored tradition ~ not to the indigenous people, it isn't ~ they kill either for food and use the animal completely, or if the animal is attacking their village.   Big game trophy hunting is a rich man's sport.  Yes, there are poachers who kill animals and sell the body parts to some Asian countries, as they believe those parts are medicial - THAT needs to stop as well - that is ALSO a rich man's vice (to use those expensive bits & pieces from the animal)

The dentist poached.  He was there when he witnessed them lure Cecil out of the protected area, and since he initially shot Cecil with a bow, he had to have noticed the GPS tracker.  Cecil suffered for 40 hours ~ they could have called the authorities to help Cecil once they knew this was a protected lion.   When they finally killed him, they stripped off the GPS collar ~ so they KNEW this lion was protected  at this time (if they weren't sure before) and yet, they never called the authorities

The farmer whose land that they lured Cecil onto (as it was next to the reserve) did not have a licence to hunt lions.

Yes, you can eat meat and CARE without being hypocritical.  I am not sure why this strawman argument keeps cropping up all the time.    People can walk and chew gum at the same time.    Animal activists have been very vocal about big game hunting (and yes, I know what occurs here in the states and have signed petitions, talked to my reps about it) but now with the murder of Cecil, more people are aware of the heinous nature of this so-called sport.

The only commonality between how commercial livestock is treated and poaching is that one is still legal and the other is illegal.    If people want to outlaw inhumane treatment of livestock (and don't tell us not to eat meat), that is a totally different topic, as that is legal and laws need to be created .  We already have laws on poaching.

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[nun ya]

I have no problem with hunting, but there is a big difference in shooting  deer, whose population is in the millions, to skinning a lion w,hile there are under 30,000 left in the world.

They say it for conservation...blah blah blah but you never hear of them taking the smallest, weakest,diseased.... always the biggest, strongest  

Killing a lion and letting it rot is not only disrespectful, it's unethical.

As far as Ted Nugent. He's an idiot. ( and I'm being kind)

You know you messed up when he comes to your defense.

[biancardi]

And this is not the only time we've been involved in such horrible crimes against animals.  We hunted buffalo almost to the point of extinction, wanting just their tonge and fur, leaving the full body to rot in the sun. 

We look back at those times with disgust and ask ourselves, how did we let this happen?  Well, it is happening again.   I wish Cecil was still alive, but to make his death meaningful, let's not wait any longer - in my lifetime, I will see some of these beautiful animals be completely wiped out in the wild.   Back in 1980, there were over 75,000 lions in  Africa, now there are  about 20,000 to 32,000 lions.  

from 1993 to 2014, lions in East Africa dropped 59% and in West Africa, 66% - in West Africa, they are on the edge of extinction.

And they STILL aren't on the endangered list?  Why not?

[Justice4all]

the ancient Romans were the ones to capture massive numbers of wild animals for their sadistic "circuses" of beast against man and beast against beast.  These hunters are the same.  No moral advancement.  Esau was reviled because he was a hunter;  hunting causing fear and pain in an animal, which was considered, and still is, unethical.

[GingerPeach]

Everyone needs to read @biancardi 's posts and take them to heart.  They are an excellent summary of these situations.

There are many people and organizations working now and who have been working for a long time to help reverse the trend to extinction of so many of our animals as well as the all important habitat.

As a matter of fact, one major thing everyone can do is to stop buying products that include palm oil.  This product is in many things such as nut butters (and more).  Growing palm oil trees has caused major rainforest destruction and has ensured that animals who lived in those forests lost their homes.  I heard a PBS interview of a worker who was told to cut down a rainforest tree before they planted the palm oil trees.  The heartbreaking story was how he witnessed an orangutan mother crying for her baby as they knocked her out of that tree.

[Stray]

There was outrage because Cecile was known and  has a story, yes.  He wasn't more valuable than any other animal hunted down, tortured, killed, skinned and beheaded. But, because of his notoriety, attention was brought to the larger issue.