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Honored Contributor
Posts: 19,978
Registered: ‎08-08-2010

Re: If your adult children are looking for a job Amazon is paying ordinary people to deliver package


@Anita Bourbon wrote:

@this is my nic wrote:

When we were first married my husband was in college, he entered the Marine Corps afer high school, so he was a bit older than most college students.  Both he and I worked for minimum wage and NO benefits.  Sometimes, you just have to take whatever you can get.  We were happy with the relative pittance that our jobs brought in. 




I hear you, but to be fair things are VERY different today.  A minimum wage job is no longer a living wage for anyone I know (besides a 16 year old that lives at home).  


Things are no different today than they have ever been. 

 

There are entry level 'jobs' and then there are professions and careers.

 

Most people start out working a 'job'. The pay and working conditions aren't always the best, the benefits may be slim or non existent. Minimum wage level jobs are out there for those first entering the work force, those looking to supplements their full time income, those looking to add to the family income without the commitment of a full career, those looking to make some money while getting an education. 

 

People looking to advance in life, aren't going to stay working in a 'job' forever. They are going to advance themselves over time in education, experience, commitment, and hard work, and will move up to that career or profession. 

 

Just because we have a sub section of the population that does not advance, does not mean that the work at that level should be granted higher pay and better benefits. That only happens when the employers in that industry cannot find help and retain good help at prevailing wages. It is all about supply and demand. If workers choose to work elsewhere, where they can be treated better, get more pay and benefits, that employer will be forced to give more/ treat better. 

 

For most Americans, there is a whole world of opportunity out there (I do realize that not every one is able to take advantage of it, but there are millions that can, and just don't). We cannot continue to blame 'the times', 'the economy', 'greedy capitalism', etc. People are the master of their own destinies, for the most part. And when life throws a curve ball, there are safety nets, some self developed and funded, some from the government, some from private charity. 

 

We cannot have everything. If customers want a business that functions like Amazon does, then it has to be run by a business model that works and is profitable. 

Same as any other business. Don't support them with your dollars, if they don't operate in a fashion you can condone.

Contributor
Posts: 73
Registered: ‎06-15-2015

Re: If your adult children are looking for a job Amazon is paying ordinary people to deliver package

I know that it's very popular to believe that everyone can make it big in this country based on hard work and a plucky can-do attitude, but I respectfully maintain that's just way too simplistic a view of today's economic reality.  I am an Ivy League grad and my friends, who are graduating with advanced degrees, are finding it very difficult to find jobs or jobs that will allow them to pay their bills and save any money.  Every day my husband (who got his current job by beating out over 300 aplicants) shows me resumes from college grads applying for $13 an hour jobs in his warehouse.  None of them seem to have ever worked in the fields for which they hold degrees.  My dad was able to go to Notre Dame on a full ride and he jokes that he wouldn't even get in today (but it's actually true, college admission is incredibly competitive these days).  The millenials in particular are having to compete on a global level in a way that their grandparents could never have conceived of and it's downright assanine to deny that.  I'm not advocating crippling businesses by jacking up wages, but I don't think it's fair to deny the truth either.  

 

I'm not a baby boomer and I can't speak for what it was like to be a college grad thirty years or so ago but I can tell you that I really fear for these younger kids because there simply aren't enough quality jobs to support all of them.  Google "Old Economy Steve" if you want to see an amusing example of the inter-generational tension that's developing in this country.     

Honored Contributor
Posts: 19,978
Registered: ‎08-08-2010

Re: If your adult children are looking for a job Amazon is paying ordinary people to deliver package


@Anita Bourbon wrote:

I know that it's very popular to believe that everyone can make it big in this country based on hard work and a plucky can-do attitude, but I respectfully maintain that's just way too simplistic a view of today's economic reality.  I am an Ivy League grad and my friends, who are graduating with advanced degrees, are finding it very difficult to find jobs or jobs that will allow them to pay their bills and save any money.  Every day my husband (who got his current job by beating out over 300 aplicants) shows me resumes from college grads applying for $13 an hour jobs in his warehouse.  None of them seem to have ever worked in the fields for which they hold degrees.  My dad was able to go to Notre Dame on a full ride and he jokes that he wouldn't even get in today (but it's actually true, college admission is incredibly competitive these days).  The millenials in particular are having to compete on a global level in a way that their grandparents could never have conceived of and it's downright assanine to deny that.  I'm not advocating crippling businesses by jacking up wages, but I don't think it's fair to deny the truth either.  

 

I'm not a baby boomer and I can't speak for what it was like to be a college grad thirty years or so ago but I can tell you that I really fear for these younger kids because there simply aren't enough quality jobs to support all of them.  Google "Old Economy Steve" if you want to see an amusing example of the inter-generational tension that's developing in this country.     


I have a rather lengthy post in the thread about the large amount of student debt that people are coming out of school with, that pretty much sums up why so many college grads don't find work or employment suited to their degrees.

 

In a nut shell, too many people are becoming too educated. They have degrees in areas that aren't marketable, or too many degrees in fields that just don't have jobs. They made a 'career' out of being a student, and did not spend time to make sure their interest in a particular field would translate to the desired income and lifestyle afterward. 

 

I comment in the other post about getting a practical education (vocational ed at the high school level) with community college and two year associate degrees, that prepare people to work in the field of their interest making decent wages and benefits, while they pursue higher education without debt. They are able to make better educational decisions, as they are already hands on in their field, and know where the future lies in the areas they are interested in.

 

The days of entering a four year degree program, studying what 'interests' you, then whining when you graduate that there are no jobs is over.

 

Employers are looking for people with education, yes. But they want people with practical skills, and hands on experience. We've spent too many years thinking attaining a masters and beyond is necessary for wealth and success. There is another route, that makes more sense for so very many people. Time to change the perceptions.

Contributor
Posts: 73
Registered: ‎06-15-2015

Re: If your adult children are looking for a job Amazon is paying ordinary people to deliver package


@mominohio wrote:

 

The days of entering a four year degree program, studying what 'interests' you, then whining when you graduate that there are no jobs is over.

 

Employers are looking for people with education, yes. But they want people with practical skills, and hands on experience. We've spent too many years thinking attaining a masters and beyond is necessary for wealth and success. There is another route, that makes more sense for so very many people. Time to change the perceptions.


 

 

I do agree that there are too many college graduates.  I spend a lot of time doing research at a small local state college and I feel deeply sorry for the undergrads that are in the same field as me because even having the prestige of the best schools in the world is no guarantee anymore.  The nasty part is none of them will realize this until it is way too late.  

 

The thing that just doesn't sit right with me is that multiple generations of young Americans have been systematically funneled towards college education since a very early age.  High schools prep them for it, parents and grandparents push them towards it, colleges spend copious amounts of money recruiting, Sallie Mae keeps cranking out the checks, and the wheel spins on.  Vocational training is certainly laudable but we also have to remember that these aren't the days of summer jobs working at the steel mill; that died out a long time ago.  Our economy is heavily service-based and it's not easy to create a vocational program that teaches how to be an office manager, a human resources exec, or a customer service manager.  I'm not sure that we have enough vocational style jobs left to shift all of these college-bound kids over to.

 

It's a deep problem with deep roots in post WWII-era America.  I for one just don't like that there is often a real lack of compassion and understanding from people who should be grateful that they never had to face even remotely similar challenges.  It's not enough to just say "Well, they should have thought this through better," that's not a solution; it's a dishonest way of shifting responsibilty that should also rest with multiple generations of educators, parents, and grandparents.  

 

 

Contributor
Posts: 73
Registered: ‎10-04-2010

Re: If your adult children are looking for a job Amazon is paying ordinary people to deliver package


@mominohio wrote:

@Anita Bourbon wrote:

@this is my nic wrote:

When we were first married my husband was in college, he entered the Marine Corps afer high school, so he was a bit older than most college students.  Both he and I worked for minimum wage and NO benefits.  Sometimes, you just have to take whatever you can get.  We were happy with the relative pittance that our jobs brought in. 




I hear you, but to be fair things are VERY different today.  A minimum wage job is no longer a living wage for anyone I know (besides a 16 year old that lives at home).  


Things are no different today than they have ever been. 

 

There are entry level 'jobs' and then there are professions and careers.

 

Most people start out working a 'job'. The pay and working conditions aren't always the best, the benefits may be slim or non existent. Minimum wage level jobs are out there for those first entering the work force, those looking to supplements their full time income, those looking to add to the family income without the commitment of a full career, those looking to make some money while getting an education. 

 

People looking to advance in life, aren't going to stay working in a 'job' forever. They are going to advance themselves over time in education, experience, commitment, and hard work, and will move up to that career or profession. 

 

Just because we have a sub section of the population that does not advance, does not mean that the work at that level should be granted higher pay and better benefits. That only happens when the employers in that industry cannot find help and retain good help at prevailing wages. It is all about supply and demand. If workers choose to work elsewhere, where they can be treated better, get more pay and benefits, that employer will be forced to give more/ treat better. 

 

For most Americans, there is a whole world of opportunity out there (I do realize that not every one is able to take advantage of it, but there are millions that can, and just don't). We cannot continue to blame 'the times', 'the economy', 'greedy capitalism', etc. People are the master of their own destinies, for the most part. And when life throws a curve ball, there are safety nets, some self developed and funded, some from the government, some from private charity. 

 

We cannot have everything. If customers want a business that functions like Amazon does, then it has to be run by a business model that works and is profitable. 

Same as any other business. Don't support them with your dollars, if they don't operate in a fashion you can condone.


Wow.  Beautifully said!  Agree heartily.