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Trusted Contributor
Posts: 1,476
Registered: ‎05-22-2010

Re: I just heard the most helpful information yesterday!

@Bhvbum We have been told to call the ER first and they will determine the need to see them.  My DD works at the hospital and she said the ER, as of yesterday, saw very few people.  

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Registered: ‎03-10-2010

Re: I just heard the most helpful information yesterday!


@QueenDanceALot wrote:

@SeaMaiden wrote:

@Laura14 wrote:

@on the bay I can not thank you enough.  That is really helpful.  I don't have the breath I normally have but I wouldn't consider myself short of it.  Thank you for a good guideline.

 

I hope I don't get worse.  I don't think I will.  They were supposed to cancel our insurance as of 3/13 with the sale of the business so I'm not sure if that happened or not since the sale got postponed.

 

Of course, look at me thinking my insurance would cover anything anyway.  I better get hit by that bus walking into the ER to make sure I meet the deductible. 

 

Thank you for the info!


I think the best bet for getting taken care of is to complain of chest pain... tell them you think you are having a heart attack... that way you will be taken seriously and right away... this is always what to say in an emergency room situation otherwise you are just left to wait and die.


@SeaMaiden 

 

Seriously?  Just tell them you think you are having a heart attack so you get to the head of the line?  Nevermind that someone may actually be HAVING a heart attack who you shove in front of by doing what "is always what to say in an emergency room situation"?

 

Geez.  SMH.


@QueenDanceALot      I did not come up with this.. a medical person who works in the ER said it.... Sometimes in the ER you can be bleeding to death and you  will sit there an bleed out. 

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Posts: 14,488
Registered: ‎04-18-2013

Re: I just heard the most helpful information yesterday!


@SeaMaiden wrote:

@QueenDanceALot wrote:

@SeaMaiden wrote:

@Laura14 wrote:

@on the bay I can not thank you enough.  That is really helpful.  I don't have the breath I normally have but I wouldn't consider myself short of it.  Thank you for a good guideline.

 

I hope I don't get worse.  I don't think I will.  They were supposed to cancel our insurance as of 3/13 with the sale of the business so I'm not sure if that happened or not since the sale got postponed.

 

Of course, look at me thinking my insurance would cover anything anyway.  I better get hit by that bus walking into the ER to make sure I meet the deductible. 

 

Thank you for the info!


I think the best bet for getting taken care of is to complain of chest pain... tell them you think you are having a heart attack... that way you will be taken seriously and right away... this is always what to say in an emergency room situation otherwise you are just left to wait and die.


@SeaMaiden 

 

Seriously?  Just tell them you think you are having a heart attack so you get to the head of the line?  Nevermind that someone may actually be HAVING a heart attack who you shove in front of by doing what "is always what to say in an emergency room situation"?

 

Geez.  SMH.


@QueenDanceALot      I did not come up with this.. a medical person who works in the ER said it.... Sometimes in the ER you can be bleeding to death and you  will sit there an bleed out. 


Well, I don't know who this "medical person" is, but lying to get in front of someone who really needs to get into the ER right away is despicable.

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Posts: 33,714
Registered: ‎03-20-2010

Re: I just heard the most helpful information yesterday!

[ Edited ]

@on the bay 

 

Thank you for the informative article......

 

Here's some additional info on OTC medications and side effects....Tylenol does NOTHING for me....Those Smarties candies do more because at least they taste good....LOL

 

Welcome to Dear Juliaa weekly column where readers can submit everyday health questions on anything from the science of hangovers to the mysteries of back pain. Julia Belluz will sift through the research and consult with experts in the field to figure out how science can help us live happier and healthier lives.

What's the difference between Tylenol, Advil, and aspirin? Which is the best to take ?By 

I used to take acetaminophen (usually referred to by its brand name, Tylenol) for the occasional headache or sore muscle, mostly because that's what we used in my house growing up. I didn't think much about whether it was more or less effective than any other type of over-the-counter pain reliever, and I suspect the same is true for many folks. Acetaminophen, after all, is the most popular over-the-counter painkiller worldwide.

 

So I was surprised when I found out there's a huge gap between how pain researchers think about this drug and how the public does. More specifically, every researcher I contacted for this piece said some variation of what Andrew Moore, a pain researcher at Oxford University, told me: Tylenol doesn't actually work that well for pain. To be more exact, he said, "I can't imagine why anybody would take acetaminophen."

 

Moore has done a number of systematic reviews on over-the-counter pain medications, looking at all the available evidence to figure out which ones work best for various problems. I asked him to describe the overall success rates for the most common three: acetaminophen (like Tylenol), ibuprofen (like Advil), and aspirin.

 

Like all good evidence-based medicine thinkers, he was able to provide a very practical answer: "If you’re talking about aspirin in doses of 500 to 1,000 mg or two tablets, 30 percent of people get relief from acute pain. For acetaminophen at doses of 500 to 1,000 mg, about 40 percent have a success. For ibuprofen, in its normal formulation at something around 400 mg or two tablets, about 50 percent have success."

 

Now, Moore was referring here to acute pain that strikes after a specific event, like a surgery, a cut, or a burn, but his message was simple: Ibuprofen seems to work best, followed by acetaminophen, and then aspirin.

 

For ongoing (or chronic) pain — a sore lower back, say, or the kind of degenerative arthritis that typically develops with age — ibuprofen still outperforms acetaminophen.

"WE FOUND THAT [TYLENOL] IS INEFFECTIVE ON BOTH PAIN AND DISABILITY OUTCOMES FOR LOW BACK PAIN"A 2015 systematic review of high-quality evidence, published in the BMJ, found that acetaminophen didn't seem to help most sufferers of chronic low back pain, and that it barely alleviates pain in people with osteoarthritis. As the researchers wrote, "We found that [acetaminophen] is ineffective on both pain and disability outcomes for low back pain in the immediate and short term and is not clinically superior to placebo on both pain and disability outcomes for osteoarthritis."

 

A limitation of the study is that the evidence on acetaminophen was mainly for acute low back pain, but as the University of Leeds's Philip Conaghan explained, "There is very little long-term data [on chronic back pain], and if a drug doesn't work in the acute problem, it seems unlikely to work in the chronic phase — though back pain may be even more complex than osteoarthritis pain."

The study also noted that patients on acetaminophen "are nearly four times more likely to have abnormal results on liver function tests compared with those taking oral placebo."

 

Other studies, like this well-designed randomized control trial of people with knee pain, have similar conclusions: Acetaminophen doesn't perform as well as ibuprofen, and it's linked to higher rates of liver problems. (Ibuprofen also has potential side effects; more on that below.)

So what about the occasional headache? What works best for that?

 

It turns out this is another fascinating problem area for pain researchers. Moore has looked at all the evidence for what he calls "infrequent tension headaches" and found "it is surprising how poor [the research] is and how little it tells us." Either the outcomes in studies are badly defined, the studies have too few participants to say anything concrete, or many people in the studies actually seem to have chronic headaches as opposed to the ordinary ones the researchers are allegedly studying.

"Most people would say, if you look at the data, take an ibuprofen tablet," Moore said. "Acetaminophen is just not a very good analgesic [pain reliever], yet it’s the go-to drug because it’s thought to be safe."

And that's where things get even more interesting:

 

Acetaminophen isn't actually that safe.

"We always thought [acetaminophen] was safe, but there are increasing signals of accidental overdose in people who are regularly using it for chronic pain, and some liver toxicity," explained Conaghan, who has studied adverse events data related to this popular drug.

Between 1998 and 2003, acetaminophen was the leading cause of acute liver failure in the US. There are also hundreds of related deaths every year — though keep in mind that millions of people take drugs with acetaminophen, so these more extreme side effects are rare (especially if you're only taking them in small doses occasionally). Still, for the drug's minimal pain-killing benefits, the risks may not be worth it.

"Don't believe that just because something is over-the-counter, it’s safe," Conaghan added. (He advised people to see their doctor if they're taking any of these painkillers for more than a few days — particularly if they're on other drugs already.)

"[TYLENOL] IS AN OLD DRUG, OBSOLETE, AND SHOULD BE AVOIDED ALTOGETHER"

Kay Brune, a professor of pharmacology and toxicology at Germany's Friedrich-Alexander University who has also studied the toxicity of painkillers, was even more direct in his thoughts on acetaminophen: "It's an old drug, obsolete, and should be avoided altogether."

Aspirin is safer than acetaminophen, he said, though to be used as a pain reliever it requires much higher doses — which can have side effects like stomach upset. Aspirin also interferes with blood coagulation for days after taking it. "If you take one gram of aspirin," Brune explained, "you're at risk of bleeding for another four days." This is why aspirin has its place as a protective agent against strokes and heart attacks for people at a higher risk.

 

Ibuprofen doesn't have these two problems — it's less toxic than the others in the doses that give people pain relief. But it has other side effects. "Ibuprofen puts people at risk of bleeds in the gastrointestinal tract and kidney damage — so it's not free of risk," said Brune. Using it in high doses also seems to raise blood pressure and increase the risk of heart attack and stroke — one reason the Food and Drug Administration recently warned people should only use ibuprofen (and other "nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs," or NSAIDS, like naproxen) for short periods of time and in small amounts.

I asked Brune about what he'd suggest for the occasional headache or sore muscle. "Taking 400 mg of ibuprofen won't cause measurable harm," he answered. "Of all drugs we have available, for most indications, it's also the most effective one."

Is acetaminophen good for anything?

If the research community seems to have sided with ibuprofen for pain, is acetaminophen good for anything?

Yes. There are some groups of people with health complications who shouldn't take ibuprofen. For example, patients with kidney, gastric, cardiovascular, or bleeding problems may need to avoid NSAIDS like ibuprofen, so doctors might suggest Tylenol in these cases.

There's also some evidence that NSAIDS may increase the risk of psychosis and cognitive impairment in the elderly, so doctors may avoid prescribing these drugs for older patients. And Tylenol is generally considered safer than Advil or aspirin for pregnant women.

Fever is another area where acetaminophen can help, said Moore. According to one systematic review, acetaminophen seems to be safe for treating very young kids with fever, and you can give children as young as 3 months old acetaminophen, whereas you need to wait until kids are at least 6 months old to safely treat them with ibuprofen. This may help to explain the popularity of drugs like Tylenol for kids.

 

But a final caveat here: If your child is older than 6 months, it's not all that clear that acetaminophen outperforms ibuprofen for reducing fevers, and the same is true for adults. So keep that in mind the next time you confront your medicine cabinet.

 

Animals are reliable, full of love, true in their affections, grateful. Difficult standards for people to live up to.”
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Posts: 14,863
Registered: ‎03-09-2010

Re: I just heard the most helpful information yesterday!

[ Edited ]

@Spurt -

I so agree!

I don't think tylenol helps with pain at all though I think the best thing for headaches is excedrin or generic of- aspirin, tylenol, and caffeine (which speeds the drugs to your system).

I once had an ortho doctor tell me and I agree that combinations of drugs tend to work very well.

They didn't mention naproxin (Aleve brand name) which I think works well for pain but can cause stomach upset too.

I don't take ibuprofin-immediate upset stomach.

So yes, when the drs on tv recommended tylenol for those with lower immunity, I was going to add (doesn't do anything for pain!) but didn't.

And you know what?!

My mother was prescribed ibuprofin after broken ribs and she got really depressed. I researched drugs for the elderly and ibuprofin is one that can cause depression in seniors! So we changed it to yeah tylenol but she said that did ok surprisingly.

Amazing how most doctors unless they are geriactric doctors are UNaware of how differently drugs, even otc drugs taken every day affect the elderly in different ways then the rest of the population.

Studies are pretty good for children, but not as much for the elderly when it comes to otc drugs.

Everyone I know, (except my mother who has a ridiculous pain tolerance!) says tylenol does nothing.

"If you walk the footsteps of a stranger, you'll learn things you never knew. Can you sing with all the voices of the mountains? can you paint with all the colors of the wind?"
Honored Contributor
Posts: 8,333
Registered: ‎03-20-2010

Re: I just heard the most helpful information yesterday!

WOW!!  How self centered to falsely present yourself as having a heart attack to get attention more quickly when actually might have the corona virus!!  That could spread it to many others including much needed medical professionals!!

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Posts: 18,308
Registered: ‎11-08-2014

Re: I just heard the most helpful information yesterday!

Great info, @on the bay ,  thanks so much for sharing it.

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Posts: 6,788
Registered: ‎08-18-2016

Re: I just heard the most helpful information yesterday!

 


@on the bay wrote:

I forgot to add, that the Dr described "shortness of breath" as, you are short of breath when just going across the room type thing.

That may be hard for people to determine who have this every day but if you haven't had this before,

that is a severe symptom.


 

Following a paralyzing illness, Drs were watching to see if paralysis would ascend to my diaphragm and effect my ability to breathe.

 

Dr told me to take a deep breath and recite the alphabet, without stopping.

 

At the time I was working myself into a panic attack, but could easily get through the alphabet.

 

He told me someone with an underlying illness causing shortness of breath (SOB) would have to stop for more air.

 

This is opposed to what I was experiencing, a tightness throughout my chest caused by anxiety. 

 

 

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Posts: 21,733
Registered: ‎03-09-2010

Re: I just heard the most helpful information yesterday!

[ Edited ]

I don't know whether this is the best virus thread to mention this, but I will anyway: Remember that flattening the curve is NOT so much about lowering the numbers but having them not all occur at the same time.

 

This is crucial for our medical system to be able to provide for as many people as possible. Otherwise, the whole system will essentially be overwhelmed, leading to more sickness and death.


~Who in the world am I? Ah, that's the great puzzle~ Lewis Carroll, Alice in Wonderland
Trusted Contributor
Posts: 1,946
Registered: ‎03-08-2018

Re: I just heard the most helpful information yesterday!

Basically the recommendation is the same as what our Dr tells us any time we are sick.  Unfortunately our companies don't support us in staying home when we are sick.

 

People don't need to panic and call their Dr now just stay home and take care of yourself.