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04-14-2019 03:00 PM
I am glad you don't live next door to me . The world doesn't need any more Gladys Kravits. Find a hobby ,and leave poor people alone
Let those that care about them, help them...I am done with you
04-14-2019 05:05 PM
@IamMrsG I didn't see any resentment or anything like that in your post.
You obviously do care about people or you wouldn't have been working in these capacities. 🌹
04-14-2019 05:57 PM
Thank you, @YorkieonmyPillow . I stand on my opinion that the best way to defeat will power, gumption and pride of accomplishment is to make people dependent. To "teach a man to fish" is an act of Love, but it takes more effort than just giving him one.
It is sad to watch artificial piety used as a weapon to attack differing opinions, but I knew somebody would pounce at the opportunity to twist and distort what I wrote. That is what I am actually contemptuous of, for what it's worth. I won't attempt to defend my post beyond this because anything else would also fall on stiff backs, so there's no point.
04-14-2019 06:13 PM
@50Mickey wrote:
@IamMrsG wrote:I am of mixed feelings and opinions on this subject. My experience with caring about the down and out among us opened my eyes and changed my thinking about it. Not to blow my own horn, but to explain the basis of my hesitancy, I share this bit of background:I have been a volunteer for an organization that collected donations from restaurants, grocery stores, banquet halls, pizza shops, bakeries, etc., then delivered them to homeless shelters.I have worked in soup kitchens, preparing, serving, and cleaning up afterwards for hundreds. Without question, the vast majority of the recipients of these meals were able bodied males of an average estimated age of 25-35, considerably younger than me.I have ten years of experience working for two large church offices (800+ congregants).Here is some of what I’ve witnessed first-hand:Recipients are generally savvy people who play the game better than those whose benevolent but naive intention is to help the poor. They gladly accept the handouts, even ask for another to take back to their sick mother, then walk around the corner and barter them for drugs, alcohol and sex. Believe me, it happens more often than you know.There are those whose full-time job it is to take charity. In the church office(s), there was a regular monthly routine when the phones would start ringing for money, supposedly for utility and rent bills. We recognized their voices, knew their names, some even had scripts they recited so often we could mouth along with them. Any one of them could have spent the same time and energy looking for work to support themselves and families, but canvassing for handouts somehow seemed more lucrative or appealing.Food boxes, filled with food for a family of four for three days, dumped out onto the sidewalk because the contents weren’t what they wanted. Believe it or not, at one church that offered dinner and overnight shelter to the homeless, one group balked at the menu and actually got on the church phone and ordered pizza for themselves!In all my time of volunteer work, I can honestly say that never, not once, did any recipient ever offer to help us or come back to reciprocate in some way, however small. No one. Ever.Even among the poor of this country, there is a strong sense of entitlement. Folks have been conditioned to believe they are owed something. There is a proverb (not biblical) that tells us, “Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach him how to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.” The underlying problem, however, is to get him to want to fish when it is ever so much easier if you’d just give him one of yours. It has been repeatedly reported that there are employers across this country who are begging for workers, but cannot find reliable people willing to work. If you spend time talking with men and women whose job takes them inside the residences (most often, First Responders), they will tell you of the large screen televisions, the cable boxes, the iphones, lap tops, etc. that they see regularly.In this vein, I am concerned about the generation of children who are growing up being handed free goods, free food, free coats, free computers, even free cell phones. What are we teaching them? What kind of future do we expect for them or our nation? If privileged children are handed everything, while earning none of it, we say it is to their detriment, that they’ll never have an appreciation for earning something. How are poor children any different in that regard? Surely they are equally deserving of learning the same life lesson!There has been a piece in the news about a school that now has a washing machine on premise specifically for children who are coming to school in dirty clothes. We have a generation that has children they cannot support, either financially, physically or psychologically. Do we think this younger generation has hope for a more productive future because they grew up getting free goods and services their parents, i.e., role models, failed to supply?If you’ve read to this point, I am fairly sure you see me in a bad light. Contrary to how it may seem, I truly am not hard-hearted or selfish. I am a Christian who believes in following Christ’s teachings; however, I also believe He believed there are consequences for bad choices. If you’ve read my posts in the Recipes forum, you are familiar with my appreciation for the blessing of abundant food this country has. I don’t want anyone to go hungry, and I fully acknowledge there are some who are truly in desperate need. I just don’t believe we are applying the best policy to handle hunger or poverty in this country. I also believe we need to incorporate a merit system, a means for earning, free goods. Maybe these children could be required to establish a good attendance record, or earn better grades, before we send groceries home to their parents who are sitting there waiting for them. There has to be a better way.You seem to have such contempt for the poor right down to saying that you are concerned about poor children being handed free food. You mention people in the church office of all places mocking people who call in for help. And then throw in these people have large screen TVs, laptops etc. Well i was one of those case workers who visited in the housing projects and poor neighborhoods. I never met one peron who wanted to raise their child in poverty. Maybe they didn't always make this best decisions but most loved their children and tried to the best of their ability to climb out of the cycle of poverty. it's not easy. I can't imagine what it must be like to ask for help to feed and clothe your chld and have to be looked upon with such judgement and scorn.
Thank you @50Mickey for so eloquently stating the heart of the matter and why so many objected to IamMrsG's post. Contempt for the poor about says it all to me and clearly many others here agreed.
04-14-2019 06:22 PM
@Cakers3 wrote:
@Pook wrote:@reiki604 I'm not sure where you got $1.40 per day per person but you might want to look at the SNAP eligibity charts!! While there might be some who have near the maximum income limit who don't get that much, they usually are not the ones who neglect to feed their children properly.
It's not a small sample that I speak of. We had access to the overall statistics for the whole state as well as the entire country. It makes me wonder where your info came from!!
@Pook I don't know if @reiki604 posted this but I was the person who said the national average is $1.40 per person per meal.
From the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities:
. On average, SNAP households received about $253 a month in fiscal year 2018. The average SNAP benefit per person was about $126 per month, which works out to about $1.40 per person per meal.
The stat was based on the USDA website.
Source: U.S. Department of Agriculture, “SNAP Fiscal Year 2019 Cost-of-Living Adjustments
Again I ask: Could you feed yourself and EACH family member on $1.40 per person per day??
---
To be accurate, this $1.40 statistic is per meal, as highlighted in red, as opposed to the question in green at the bottom. It is based on three meals per day, which would be $4.20 per day. If you subtract the school breakfast and lunch programs, this would be, in many cases, $4.20 for one meal on school days. In my community, those who receive SNAP benefits automatically qualify for the local food banks in addition to any other benefits they might receive.
This is not a value judgment on my part; only trying to clarify the statistic. There is much to agree with and to disagree with on this thread, even from opposing viewpoints.
The important thing is that it is a disgrace for anyone to go hungry in this country, especially a child, who has no way to provide for his/her basic needs.
Of course, there is fraud or misrepresentation in some of these programs, but I prefer to think it minimal. Addressing the need is so much more important than ferreting out the fraud.
04-14-2019 06:31 PM
@Trinity11 wrote:
@nomless wrote:
@cherry wrote:People who think it is OK ,just to destroy a family, by tearing it apart ,without one thought ,for the lives they are destroying in the process ,scares me to death
All those comnas make that sentence difficult to read. No comnas should be used in that sentence.
Comnas??? Be careful critiquing other posters grammar. It is bound to backfire on you...
I guess it does backfire. Here you are critiquing another "posters" spelling. Sorry I couldn't resist and I sure hope I didn't spell anything wrong ![]()
04-14-2019 06:40 PM - edited 04-14-2019 08:07 PM
Anyone remember the made-up Welfare Queen stuff? It was tragic then, and it's tragic today.
Fraud and scamming, eh? So as I understand it, a small percentage of such takers is reason enough to dismiss the the whole thing and just turn it over to nice individuals who can't possibly have the same reach as public organizations.
Should we, then, be consistent and do the same with corporations who might commit fraud? Shut them all down?
If none of you have been truly hungry for an extended period of time (not talking about a fancy fasting diet), then please don't try to mitigate its horrors with facile comments. I haven't endured that, but I can walk in those shoes.
Thank goodness for those who see through all the holier-then-thou falseness and have countered it with reason and humanity.
If we don't help that portion of our population for moral reasons, then do so for the sake of our nation. The lack of food creates a host of problems that only bode ill for us as a society.
Sorry for the ramble. This is a very emotional issue for me.
Thanks, @Cakers !
04-14-2019 06:51 PM
@VanSleepy wrote:
@Trinity11 wrote:
@nomless wrote:
@cherry wrote:People who think it is OK ,just to destroy a family, by tearing it apart ,without one thought ,for the lives they are destroying in the process ,scares me to death
All those comnas make that sentence difficult to read. No comnas should be used in that sentence.
Comnas??? Be careful critiquing other posters grammar. It is bound to backfire on you...
I guess it does backfire. Here you are critiquing another "posters" spelling. Sorry I couldn't resist and I sure hope I didn't spell anything wrong
Did you even read Cherry's post and the rude response that poster made to her about her grammar?
I meant the plural of poster and intended to post "posters." So you can snark at someone else.
04-14-2019 06:54 PM - edited 04-14-2019 07:44 PM
@Highlands72 To add to your post. $1.40 per person is not what most recipients of SNAP receive. And you are right it is per meal and not per day. It is rare that anyone would only be getting $1.40 per meal and those would be ones that have quite a bit of income. They are usually the ones that apply for medical and the worker informs them that they can qualify for some SNAP benefits and often have to talk them into applying. Remember that there are deductions taken off of earned income
(welfare benefits are not earned income) before arriving at the amount to calculate SNAP benefits so SNAP is only to supplement their income. Deductions are 20% of net pay, $155 for household 1-3 people, $168 for more than 4, cost of child care or care for disabled members, child support payments, certain medical expenses for elderly or disabled and Approved shelter costs that exceed half the household’s net income ( and most unless section 8 or housing projects exceed this) after the other six deductions have been taken out (not to exceed $504). Anybody should still be able to feed their children with the extra help from SNAP. All those naysayers should go online and check it out for themselves. I think it will surprise most.
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