Community Chat

[terrier3]

On 9/26/2014 ckr1147 said:

Yes, I fear that we are talking to each other and all agree with what the real problem is (laziness and lack of motivation, along with enabling)...but I do appreciate everyone's suggestions...and thanks for making me feel like I really am right, and not just being a beeyotch when I don't hand over $$$$.....

I DON'T agree it's laziness, lack of motivation and enabling. Those are all symptoms - the problem is deeper.

I believe the mom is depressed. Same with the son too. They see limited opportunity and limited hope for a better future. They also have the pressure of raising a grandchild whose mom abandoned him. It's a lot on their plate & they don't have the internal resources to cope.

Other posters said the same.

Perhaps you too would be depressed if your marriage broke up, you had limited skills and at your age, and no one wanted to hire you. And if you were fat, unkempt & had bad teeth - not exactly man catcher material.

I think considering YOUR situation and how much more superior it is to her's, you could show a little understanding. She is the mother of your husband's children.

The more you put her down and attribute her issues to lack of ambition, the bigger a Beeyotch you will appear to be.

[stazgirl]

On 9/26/2014 terrier3 said:

On 9/26/2014 ckr1147 said:

Yes, I fear that we are talking to each other and all agree with what the real problem is (laziness and lack of motivation, along with enabling)...but I do appreciate everyone's suggestions...and thanks for making me feel like I really am right, and not just being a beeyotch when I don't hand over $$$$.....

I DON'T agree it's laziness, lack of motivation and enabling. Those are all symptoms - the problem is deeper.

I believe the mom is depressed. Same with the son too. They see limited opportunity and limited hope for a better future. They also have the pressure of raising a grandchild whose mom abandoned him. It's a lot on their plate & they don't have the internal resources to cope.

Other posters said the same.

Perhaps you too would be depressed if your marriage broke up, you had limited skills and at your age, and no one wanted to hire you. And if you were fat, unkempt & had bad teeth - not exactly man catcher material.

I think considering YOUR situation and how much more superior it is to her's, you could show a little understanding. She is the mother of your husband's children.

The more you put her down and attribute her issues to lack of ambition, the bigger a Beeyotch you will appear to be.

Wow!!! I think that was a little harsh. Yes this is the mother if her husbands children but you have NO idea why her marriage broke up, could be she has always been a non contributor and someone who just preferred to be taken care of. You are assuming that the break up had something to do with this women's situation, could be the opposite. My husbands first marriage broke up BECAUSE of the actions of his EX-wife. SHE, after being given many chances simply decide it was easier to do what SHE WANTED and disregard her responsibilities. IE: the other son's are doing just fine. As for the son, seems like he has been given MANY MANY chances to turn himself around, and has refused. Not ALL people who allow themselves to get to a state such as this are depressed, some simple do not care. I know both kinds. You can NOT, no matter how hard you try, help someone who doesn't want to TRY.. OP, please know there are MANY on here who know your frustration.

[stazgirl]

On 9/26/2014 terrier3 said:

On 9/26/2014 ckr1147 said:

Yes, I fear that we are talking to each other and all agree with what the real problem is (laziness and lack of motivation, along with enabling)...but I do appreciate everyone's suggestions...and thanks for making me feel like I really am right, and not just being a beeyotch when I don't hand over $$$$.....

I DON'T agree it's laziness, lack of motivation and enabling. Those are all symptoms - the problem is deeper.

I believe the mom is depressed. Same with the son too. They see limited opportunity and limited hope for a better future. They also have the pressure of raising a grandchild whose mom abandoned him. It's a lot on their plate & they don't have the internal resources to cope.

Other posters said the same.

Perhaps you too would be depressed if your marriage broke up, you had limited skills and at your age, and no one wanted to hire you. And if you were fat, unkempt & had bad teeth - not exactly man catcher material.

I think considering YOUR situation and how much more superior it is to her's, you could show a little understanding. She is the mother of your husband's children.

The more you put her down and attribute her issues to lack of ambition, the bigger a Beeyotch you will appear to be.

Sorry double post

[terrier3]

On 9/26/2014 ssssgirl said:

On 9/26/2014 terrier3 said:

On 9/26/2014 ckr1147 said:

Yes, I fear that we are talking to each other and all agree with what the real problem is (laziness and lack of motivation, along with enabling)...but I do appreciate everyone's suggestions...and thanks for making me feel like I really am right, and not just being a beeyotch when I don't hand over $$$$.....

I DON'T agree it's laziness, lack of motivation and enabling. Those are all symptoms - the problem is deeper.

I believe the mom is depressed. Same with the son too. They see limited opportunity and limited hope for a better future. They also have the pressure of raising a grandchild whose mom abandoned him. It's a lot on their plate & they don't have the internal resources to cope.

Other posters said the same.

Perhaps you too would be depressed if your marriage broke up, you had limited skills and at your age, and no one wanted to hire you. And if you were fat, unkempt & had bad teeth - not exactly man catcher material.

I think considering YOUR situation and how much more superior it is to her's, you could show a little understanding. She is the mother of your husband's children.

The more you put her down and attribute her issues to lack of ambition, the bigger a Beeyotch you will appear to be.

Wow!!! I think that was a little harsh. Yes this is the mother if her husbands children but you have NO idea why her marriage broke up, could be she has always been a non contributor and someone who just preferred to be taken care of. You are assuming that the break up had something to do with this women's situation, could be the opposite. My husbands first marriage broke up BECAUSE of the actions of his EX-wife. SHE, after being given many chances simply decide it was easier to do what SHE WANTED and disregard her responsibilities. IE: the other son's are doing just fine. As for the son, seems like he has been given MANY MANY chances to turn himself around, and has refused. Not ALL people who allow themselves to get to a state such as this are depressed, some simple do not care. I know both kinds. You can NOT, no matter how hard you try, help someone who doesn't want to TRY.. OP, please know there are MANY on here who know your frustration.

I'll agree I was harsh - but here is why...

The OP made the assumption that everyone agreed with her. Reading the posts, that was incorrect.

Then she said thanks for making her feel that she was right all along, and not acting like a B----.

Not only did she dismiss anyone who disagreed with her, she herself brought in the B word...I imagine that certain people in her family have expressed their displeasure with her opinion.

She needs to open her mind and her heart and thank the Lord for her blessings. Yes, she's a hard worker (vs. Wife #1). I imagine she also is a healthy weight, dresses well and has good teeth. Her disdain and dislike of Wife #1 comes through loud & clear....NOT the way to act to improve the situation, IMO. She insinuates Wife #1 stole (the cash drawer was short)...yet she wasn't charged with anything? Every little extra comment she has made dripped with her disapproval...I'm sure her DH and his kids are well aware of it. The ex worked at the same job for 15 years...that's NOT being a shirker or a taker. Something happened that changed that...THAT is the underlying issue that needs to be addressed.

The son might be an uneducated hot head who ended up with a metal rod in his leg while working off the books (hence no disability or other assistance). But he also took in his child when the mother of his son abandoned her boy - a lot of men would have just walked away and allowed the boy to go into foster care. He may be struggling - he may have a lot of personality traits that are less than desirable - but he is working and bringing home $1,000 a month (obviously minimum wage and I hope not "under the table.") He needs to stop working "off the books" - he gains NO credits for SS, no protection if he is injured again, no ability to get the Earned Income Tax Credit that he deserves. If his brother is paying him minimum wages off the books - his brother isn't helping him - he is exploiting him. I hope the brother doesn't employ other workers that way - it is illegal and immoral to boot.

The son is a product of his mother AND his father (her husband). A caring man isn't going to abandon his own child and grandchild, no matter what the circumstances. If her husband DIDN'T care, I would think less of him! The OP needs to stop being so judgmental and stop looking to the anonymous forum to back her up...which I doubt her DH and his family are doing...hence her comment about feeling like a B----.

[Sunnyfield]

Wow, Terrier, that was harsh, but maybe eye-opening too...so let me ask you, what would you suggest we do? We cannot afford to bleed money - I know compared to "them",we are rich, but believe me we are not. I do however thank God for what we do have every day - I know what it is like to be without a job, no money, etc etc. and have to ask for help. Not a good place to be and, yes, it is depressing.

How do we broach the idea of depression and medical issues? Do we say we will help pay for treatment? The ex might be willing, but from past experience, I doubt DH's son would be.

And I do feel like a BEEYOTCH when I say "no more help" to someone who needs it...wouldn't you???

I don't think that I have dismissed people's suggestions...I have appreciated them and added information that I thought would clarify the situation. I was not looking for "back-up" but, frankly, I did appreciate supportive comments some have made.

DH and ex have been living apart for almost 30 years - he left when youngest son was 3 - for lots of reasons, none having to do with me. I could tell you more, but it is past history and has nothing to do with now.

Oh, and I did not assume that the reason for ex's dismissal was theft - she said that was the reason she was given by employer...however, she never filed for unemployment benefits (which I know are not given when there is cause for dismissal). After 15 years of employment, having your cash drawer short does not seem like a valid reason for dismissal, unless there was something else going on.

I could go on chapter and verse about things that have happened over the years but frankly I was trying to focus on the immediate issue ($$$$ problems and how to solve) and not dredge up things that happened over the years that have caused me to "drip with disapproval" and feel like my DH is being "played" on occasion.

I came on the forum because many of you have experience and expertise in various areas that I have no knowledge of. Terrier, you have pointed out issues with the social services system that I had no idea about (overworked, underfunded, etc) and said FL was one of the worst states - again, I had no idea about this and I now understand that getting any kind of assistance is easier said than done. So maybe this route has been tried by the ex and she got nowhere - which is entirely possible and understandable, now that I have read your posts.

The forum, to me, is a sharing place - for good or bad - I have shared few things - good and bad. And appreciate all the comments, suggestions - good and bad.

[terrier3]

ckr1147 - Thank you for not dismissing my comments out of hand. I know I sounded harsh - but what I was trying to do was show you some other aspects to the situation you may not be aware of or may be overlooking. When family members are in crisis, it's easy to lose objectivity and "feel" instead of "think" your way through the situation.

I want to ask you one more question - I have brought it up but haven't really gotten a reply - does the brother pay his brother "under the table?" Did he make ANY wages in the last 3 years that were "ON" the books? If so, he will be able to back file for Earned Income Tax Credit refunds - which will be a lot more than he paid into income taxes. That would be a nice sum of money that could supplement their income. It's federal, no FLA involvement at all. The program was created to encourage people with dependent children to work - which he is attempting to do, no matter that it's not much.

Thank you for not bashing me - I truly feel for you and the situation you find yourself in!

[Sunnyfield]

Thanks Terrier - in answer to your question, I truly don't know how son is paid - whether it is off the books totally, partially, or not at all -

We are supposed to talk with the ex tomorrow and will ask the question - hopefully we will get a straight answer (she is not always totally forthcoming) - and we can always ask the brother if we don't think we are getting a straight answer from the ex....

I appreciate your suggestions and information.

[terrier3]

On 9/27/2014 ckr1147 said:

Thanks Terrier - in answer to your question, I truly don't know how son is paid - whether it is off the books totally, partially, or not at all -

We are supposed to talk with the ex tomorrow and will ask the question - hopefully we will get a straight answer (she is not always totally forthcoming) - and we can always ask the brother if we don't think we are getting a straight answer from the ex....

I appreciate your suggestions and information.

He probably would get around $3250 for EACH of the last 3 years (the maximum amount for one child). That would be $9,750 he wasn't expecting...just an estimate on my part though.

BUT he must have earned income ON THE BOOKS to be eligible - no matter how small an amount.

There are charities who will file taxes for free. H&R Block and companies like that are rip offs for the poor - they try to push "loans" at high rates and services that aren't needed. At this time of year, you can even go directly to the IRS office for assistance.

Of course this is assuming he didn't file in the last 3 years, which is totally possible since he earns such a small amount of money.

When people don't feel they have many choices in life, they will settle for off the books money - no matter how underpaid they are. That's how il legals are paid - they no they have no recourse if they complain about anything. Unfortunately there are plenty of unscrupulous employers who will take advantage of the situation to get cheap labor & line their own pockets by not paying their share of taxes and benefits (like disability insurance!). FLA is a state with a LOT of work off the books and lax enforcement of the rules.

[ROMARY]

Sometimes people don't pursue what's (private and/or community-wise) available for their children's benefit. It's easier (for them) to just ask relatives, sometimes bringing them down financially, too. Or, who knows, some folks do receive the assistance, and then still continue to ask for $$$$ from the relatives. Personally, I'd have a long talk with the other adult brothers who know the situation first hand. Seems as though at least one of them could be disgusted/tired of the ongoing situation for a very legitimate reason. .... In fact, I'd probably have a talk with the brothers even before talking with the ex. Just to be 'ahead of the game'.

[Sunnyfield]

Ok so we had a conversation this AM and I found out that son is NOT working öff the books'- my mistake on that - I think he might have at one time, or maybe I misunderstood.

He has filed taxes and received his EITC.

Grandson receives free lunches at school.

She is going to look into reducing the cable bill and the car insurance bill...they don't have a car payment - bought the car for cash - it is old and things go wrong. Not a wise purchase in my opinion, but they bought "the car they liked"...

They do not have a computer or internet, which is severely limiting. I told her that she needs to get access to a computer - maybe at the library or one of her other sons can help her. I suggested going on Craigslist, as there are many, many jobs posted - some may be scams, but I know my son got two jobs from Craigslist postings...she is going to look into that. She said she has been putting in lots of applications, in hopes of getting hired for the holidays....

One thing I did not understand is that son's employer did not pay his medical bills when he had an injury on the job...as I understand it, workman's comp should pay for any work related injury? At least the medical bills...maybe he was discouraged from filiing by his employer, but it was a $450 med bill...does anyone have knowledge of that?

I did say we were concerned about son's ability to care for his son and though he needed to consider looking for a better job, or taking on another job, but she didn't respond to that.

So, hopefully, she will try some new job search avenues...thanks for listening, Ladies of the Forum (and Gentlemen, too)

She seemed open to suggestions but at the end of the conversation she said "'we were fine until we had to pay to get the car fixed" - I wanted to scream "You are NOT fine! You are living below poverty level"