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Honored Contributor
Posts: 19,918
Registered: ‎08-08-2010

Re: Have you considered what it will be like if.....


@noodleann wrote:

@mominohio wrote:

a good vaccine isn't found, or is way further off than expected for Covid? How it will effect your daily life, or those in your family?

 

Or if getting it manufactured in quantity enough to supply the world takes an additional year or more?

 

Or turns out to be like the flu vaccine is most times, and isn't really all that effective?

 

I'm not looking for the usual 'don't borrow trouble' or 'stop worrying about what hasn't happened, or 'stop creating panic' responses. I'm not. I'm simply bringing to the table, something that should be considered and discussed. The fact that there may not be a good vaccine, or a quick vaccine, and we may be in this thing for even longer than we have anticipated. 

 

If we keep using all the precautions, if places choose to keep falling back on lockdown type restrictions, fewer people will be exposed, and fewer will gain immunity. Will we simply have to go through the process of waiting until heard immunity is reached to some good extent? Will we have to maybe wait it out to see if it weakens on it's own? How long might that be?

 

If anyone has read anything based on these kinds of questions, and would like to share the sources, I'd be interested to know.


I get the flu vaccine annually, but I wouldn't take a COVID-19 vaccine approved under the relaxed regulatory conditions that exist today even if it were available tomorrow. I have no reason to trust the process, so I don't trust the results. I also don't want this virus in my body. A vaccine won't do anything for me.

 

Treatment to wipe out this coronavirus and COVID-19 is the answer. I believe that's even farther away than a vaccine.

 

We, collectively, have never used "all the precautions." Even in places that were on lockdown, people still violated the rules. The violators will probably deny this because they carved out exceptions that they found acceptable (like having visits with close friends and family) and don't count them, but they still failed to abide by the requirements. I don't see lockdowns working in future unless they're accompanied fines for individuals and organizations. 

 

The post seems to embrace the concept of herd immunity, which is an unanswered question with this virus. Whether people "gain immunity" by exposure or having COVID-19  and recovering is not actually known. The quality of that immunity and its duration are also undetermined. Conversations based on speculation might be interesting if the participants were epidemiologists. Here, they're a waste of time, IMO.

 

"I'm simply bringing to the table, something that should be considered and discussed." Why exactly "should" it be "considered and discussed" here? Seems this is a conversation that is more appropriately had with family members and possibly co-workers.

 

I have accepted the fact that this is now the way life is and will be possibly until I die and that I just have to find new ways of getting certain things accomplished.


 

I don't recall saying it should be discussed here, just that it should be discussed. But why not here? If you don't want to discuss it here, don't. But don't imply it is inappropriate to do so in this context because, well, it's not. 

 

And you seem to have missed the part where I asked for sources about the topic in general, including herd immunity, that anyone would like to share, so it's more than just speculation, although there is nothing wrong with speculation, as long as people can differentiate it from fact. Again, it's like the 'what if'. Speculation leads to thinking, to ideas, to problem solving, to results. Gee we certainly don't want to see that happen, now do we? 

 

Seem odd that the same few people who don't want to discuss this topic, keep coming back to discuss this topic. 

 

 

Respected Contributor
Posts: 4,492
Registered: ‎03-10-2010

Re: Have you considered what it will be like if.....

@Goldengate8361 

 

LOL Speaking of "predictable voices"... don't look now, but the OP started a thread ostensibly asking readers if they've considered what it would be like if a vaccine weren't discovered, only to proceed to list a number of "unacceptable" responses--from those who either haven't considered it, or choose not to cry the blues over this pandemic.

 

Let's talk about science. There's very little to support many of these restrictions, from mask-wearing to the magical "6-foot distance."  Hence, the flip-flopping. Also, Fauci was wrong. And the pandemic didn't tank the economy. Draconian responses did that. Not every country locked down the healthy, and it turned out that they were right. 

 

Believe me, you don't want to know what I've been reading about some of these 40-50 vaccine trials, which I've been following since the beginning. Good luck to those just now asking the question if you're relying on search engines which are notoriously front-loaded. BTW--Fauci, himself, was carping months ago about a "fast-tracked" vaccine due to acknowledged regimens not being followed. Oh, goodie.

 

In the absence of a vaccine, herd immunity is all we can hope for. Countries which didn't keep their healthy citizens cooped up and masked fared better with that. And this virus, like so many others, will probably mutate into a seasonal flu, anyway.  That's a good thing, because a considerable number of people will not be getting this vaccine.

 

You can make book on that.



What worries you masters you.
Honored Contributor
Posts: 19,918
Registered: ‎08-08-2010

Re: Have you considered what it will be like if.....


@stevieb wrote:

@Marp wrote:

@stevieb wrote:

@Marp wrote:

@stevieb wrote:

Sorry I can't respond as directed, but the discussion is pointless... Yet another virus thread with pretty much the same somewhat predictable responses from more or less the same somewhat predictable folks, who have been beating up this topic for the past four months... And you know what, at the end of the day nothing being said here matters... Not a bit... What's going to happen is going to happen and pretty clearly if any of us had any control over it, things would be different... All the 'what ifs' in the world are not helpful or remotely worthwhile...


Yet another virus thread with pretty much the same somewhat predictable responses from more or less the same somewhat predictable folks, who have been beating up this topic for the past four months..

 

Works both ways.  Too many virus threads, too many of the same old same old, too many of the complainers about the virus threads repeatedly saying the same thing on nearly every virus thread.

 

If you don't want to discuss the virus simply stop responding to posts about the virus.  Problem solved.

 

The virus is not going away and neither are the posts/threads about it.


Neither, then, are the comments indicating there are those who find the never-ending discussion pointless, at best...


Precisely my point.  The difference between those that want to talk about the virus and those that would like the discussions to disappear is that those wanting to discuss seek out the threads and posts while those that want them to disappear don't avoid them.


Because they've become virtually impossible to avoid. You open the forums and there they are...


 

Virtually impossible to avoid? Please. 

 

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Respected Contributor
Posts: 2,010
Registered: ‎03-09-2010

Re: Have you considered what it will be like if.....

I heard an expert today (Fauci?) say that he didn't have high hopes for a dependable vaccine because it's being rushed too fast w/o enough testing.    So, if we do get one by early next year,  we can't be sure how effective or safe it will be.

 

He said finding treatments right now were more important and dependable..  

**********
"The truth is like a lion. You don't have to defend it. Let it loose. It will defend itself."
- Augustine

Be Vigilent
Honored Contributor
Posts: 19,918
Registered: ‎08-08-2010

Re: Have you considered what it will be like if.....


@Lion wrote:

I heard an expert today (Fauci?) say that he didn't have high hopes for a dependable vaccine because it's being rushed too fast w/o enough testing.    So, if we do get one by early next year,  we can't be sure how effective or safe it will be.

 

He said finding treatments right now were more important and dependable..  


 

 

I have thought from early on the saving grace would be effective treatments over vaccines for this. I have no real scientific 'proof', it's just a gut feeling based on the ineffectiveness of some other vaccines. 

Respected Contributor
Posts: 2,449
Registered: ‎03-21-2017

Re: Have you considered what it will be like if.....

 


@Kachina624 wrote:

 

 

The problem will be to get enough manufactured so it can be administered to millions of people.  Countries where it could be made are likely to give a priority to administering to their own citizens.  Once again, the US is a day late and a dollar short and I haven't heard anyone even mention the problem, let alone a solution 


This was discussed in the Senate hearings today.

@Kachina624 

Esteemed Contributor
Posts: 7,156
Registered: ‎03-09-2010

Re: Have you considered what it will be like if.....

[ Edited ]

@hckynut wrote:

@CalmInTheHeart wrote:

I expect covid to be around until the "it's all about me" crowd begins thinking about others, their impact on others, and the common good.  Just look at all the new outbreaks, people refusing to wear masks, and anti-science mentality for proof.

 

The price of the vaccine could be a problem for many if it's too expensive.  

 



@CalmInTheHeart wrote:

I expect covid to be around until the "it's all about me" crowd begins thinking about others, their impact on others, and the common good.  Just look at all the new outbreaks, people refusing to wear masks, and anti-science mentality for proof.

 

The price of the vaccine could be a problem for many if it's too expensive.  

 


 

 

@CalmInTheHeart 

 

Not exactly sure who falls into your "it's all about me category", but I am thinking it is not the same as mine.

 

Mine would be the ones walking/standing, shoulder to shoulder/not only talking, but shouting(i can actually see the droplets)/some even holding hands.

 

They supposedly "are thinking about others" but their thought processes and actions are much different than mine.

 

I think I know those you are referencing in your "group", and you mine. For mine there are too many, and they are ignorant when it comes to historical facts. Your "group" are those not believing everything that so-called experts, are putting out, much of which is more  speculative, than factual.

 

That's my take,

 

 

hckynut 🏒


 

 

I consider the "it's all about me" group to include people who:

  • ignore the real experts
  • consider covid a hoax
  • don't care enough about others to take precautions
  • won't wear masks in public
  • ignore the possibility they might be carriers
  • won't educate themselves
  • listen to the man/woman who plays a doctor on tv instead of epidemiologists

500,000 people - with 127,000+ in the U.S. - dying in a matter of a few months should be enough to make people care about their impact on others no matter the cause.  Many in other countries already think Americans are loud, ignorant, and obnoxious and it's being proven these days. 

Trusted Contributor
Posts: 1,129
Registered: ‎06-30-2018

Re: Have you considered what it will be like if.....

[ Edited ]

@mominohio wrote:

@Deree wrote:

Funny thing is I have a tendency toward pessimism and worry but I haven't spent any time being bothered by this thought.  I am optimistic that a vaccine will be developed sooner than anticipated.  But I tell ya what I am bothered about.  People.  I have been angry and dismayed at people's attitudes in this country in general.  I never thought there were so many Ignorant and selfish people. People who don't understand science and who don't know what it is to make small sacrifices for the good of everyone. And that is what worries me about the future.  It's one thing to have understandable guidelines to follow or a vaccine.  It's another to have people's cooperation.  Without people's cooperation we are fighting a losing battle IMO.


 

I agree @Deree that cooperation is essential. 

 

But I hesitate to call people ignorant, selfish and not understanding science in this instance. The science itself isn't getting this right, and is ever changing. 

 

The science is attached to politics and money (always is, not just in this instance) and it's no wonder people don't believe everything they are told, question what they are told, or choose to go a different direction, when other people in the science field say just the opposite of others. There really isn't a lot of good solid proven science on this one yet, and we are being told one thing, only to have that struck down and told the opposite. Creates an environment ripe for varying opinions to rise.

 

 


@mominohio   One thing I think we know for sure is that masks and social distancing make a huge difference in how this virus will spread.  And that is why I stand by my descriptions of "ignorant" and "selfish" for those who choose not to follow those guidelines (as confirmed by science AND in practice).  THIRTY-FIVE states!  35!  There's no excuse for that.

Wear a mask. Social distance. Be part of the solution - not part of the problem.
Honored Contributor
Posts: 19,918
Registered: ‎08-08-2010

Re: Have you considered what it will be like if.....


@Deree wrote:

@mominohio wrote:

@Deree wrote:

Funny thing is I have a tendency toward pessimism and worry but I haven't spent any time being bothered by this thought.  I am optimistic that a vaccine will be developed sooner than anticipated.  But I tell ya what I am bothered about.  People.  I have been angry and dismayed at people's attitudes in this country in general.  I never thought there were so many Ignorant and selfish people. People who don't understand science and who don't know what it is to make small sacrifices for the good of everyone. And that is what worries me about the future.  It's one thing to have understandable guidelines to follow or a vaccine.  It's another to have people's cooperation.  Without people's cooperation we are fighting a losing battle IMO.


 

I agree @Deree that cooperation is essential. 

 

But I hesitate to call people ignorant, selfish and not understanding science in this instance. The science itself isn't getting this right, and is ever changing. 

 

The science is attached to politics and money (always is, not just in this instance) and it's no wonder people don't believe everything they are told, question what they are told, or choose to go a different direction, when other people in the science field say just the opposite of others. There really isn't a lot of good solid proven science on this one yet, and we are being told one thing, only to have that struck down and told the opposite. Creates an environment ripe for varying opinions to rise.

 

 


@mominohio   One thing I think we know for sure is that masks and social distancing make a huge difference in how this virus will spread.  And that is why I stand by my descriptions of "ignorant" and "selfish" for those who choose not to follow those guidelines (as confirmed by science AND in practice).  THIRTY-FIVE states!  35!  There's no excuse for that.


 

@Deree 

 

I'm not certain that we do actually 'know' that distancing and masks, as they are prescribed at this time, are making a huge difference. 

 

Common sense says so, but many have pointed out that the 6 foot spacing is probably not adequate. And what we are using for masks and face coverings vary in effectiveness, as well as proper wearing of them. 

 

I'm all in for doing those simple things in hopes it is giving us some protections, but I doubt they are really as effective as people think they are. 

 

I don't see how or why anyone is surprised at the spikes happening. They were bound to once states began to open up. 

 

It's a shame that we have resulted to name calling against those that have a difference of opinion on a subject. I can disapprove, consider their choices harmful if I believe what the powers that be are telling me today, but in reality we have a long time yet before we know the full scope of what is and isn't accurate about the handling of this viurs. 

Honored Contributor
Posts: 19,918
Registered: ‎08-08-2010

Re: Have you considered what it will be like if.....


@CalmInTheHeart wrote:

@hckynut wrote:

@CalmInTheHeart wrote:

I expect covid to be around until the "it's all about me" crowd begins thinking about others, their impact on others, and the common good.  Just look at all the new outbreaks, people refusing to wear masks, and anti-science mentality for proof.

 

The price of the vaccine could be a problem for many if it's too expensive.  

 



@CalmInTheHeart wrote:

I expect covid to be around until the "it's all about me" crowd begins thinking about others, their impact on others, and the common good.  Just look at all the new outbreaks, people refusing to wear masks, and anti-science mentality for proof.

 

The price of the vaccine could be a problem for many if it's too expensive.  

 


 

 

@CalmInTheHeart 

 

Not exactly sure who falls into your "it's all about me category", but I am thinking it is not the same as mine.

 

Mine would be the ones walking/standing, shoulder to shoulder/not only talking, but shouting(i can actually see the droplets)/some even holding hands.

 

They supposedly "are thinking about others" but their thought processes and actions are much different than mine.

 

I think I know those you are referencing in your "group", and you mine. For mine there are too many, and they are ignorant when it comes to historical facts. Your "group" are those not believing everything that so-called experts, are putting out, much of which is more  speculative, than factual.

 

That's my take,

 

 

hckynut 🏒


 

 

I consider the "it's all about me" group to include people who:

  • ignore the real experts
  • consider covid a hoax
  • don't care enough about others to take precautions
  • won't wear masks in public
  • ignore the possibility they might be carriers
  • won't educate themselves
  • listen to the man/woman who plays a doctor on tv instead of epidemiologists

500,000 people - with 127,000+ in the U.S. - dying in a matter of a few months should be enough to make people care about their impact on others no matter the cause.  Many in other countries already think Americans are loud, ignorant, and obnoxious and it's being proven these days. 


 

But they love our money!