Community Chat

[occasionalrain]

It seems we have different perspectives. There are victims but the women in this case should have stood up for themselves at the time rather than accept it in exchange for a paycheck, a promotion, a role in a film. They made their choice then, it's too late now, years later, for a do over.

[Cakers3]

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@QueenDanceALot wrote:

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@Cakers3 wrote:

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@QueenDanceALot wrote:

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@suzyQ3 wrote:

At least now I know exactly what I dislike about this cartoon. As the OP and a few others have explained, they think that this whole harassment thing is overblown, that handling such situations is a breeze, and that accusers can't be trusted.

So yeah, I hate this cartoon. It plays into general stereotypes and mimimizes, through ridicule, sexual harassment.

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@suzyQ3

It reminded me of a person we all know who, when accused by a woman of groping her on an airplane decades ago, said to a large group of people that if he was going to grope someone it wouldn't have been her.

Oh, hahahahahahaha they all responded.

Oh, haha indeed.

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@QueenDanceALot  Exactly my point earlier-that there is an awful perception that attractiveness shores up a sexual harassment complaint but the poor woman in that cartoon who obviously is not attractive feels left out; thereby perpetuating the myth that woman want it. 

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@Cakers3

And that only sexually provocative women are preyed upon.

"What were you wearing?" was a popular question when a woman dared to tell.

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@QueenDanceALot  A tad off topic but that is why the third season of Broadchurch was realistic-the rape victim was not a twenty-something beauty but a mature woman without all the makeup and hairspray.

Not what some think as a "typical" victim. 

[sidsmom]

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@QueenDanceALot wrote:

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@suzyQ3 wrote:

At least now I know exactly what I dislike about this cartoon. As the OP and a few others have explained, they think that this whole harassment thing is overblown, that handling such situations is a breeze, and that accusers can't be trusted.

So yeah, I hate this cartoon. It plays into general stereotypes and mimimizes, through ridicule, sexual harassment.

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@suzyQ3

It reminded me of a person we all know who, when accused by a woman of groping her on an airplane decades ago, said to a large group of people that if he was going to grope someone it wouldn't have been her.

Oh, hahahahahahaha they all responded.

Oh, haha indeed.

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@QueenDanceALot

I saw her interview just now on the Apple. 

And I liked the way she said (paraphrasing) that she understood

if you choose not to believe her after all this time..why coming forward now?...but it happened.

[RoughDraft]

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@occasionalrain wrote:

It seems we have different perspectives. There are victims but the women in this case should have stood up for themselves at the time rather than accept it in exchange for a paycheck, a promotion, a role in a film. They made their choice then, it's too late now, years later, for a do over.

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And what would "this case" be?  Women are entitled to try for careers of their choice and an established, powerful man should judge her on her work, education and capacity to do the job she is pursuing.  There shouldn't be a physical price to be paid with her body!

How many men are asked to walk away from a career/job if they are harassed?  

[QueenDanceALot]

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@sidsmom wrote:

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@QueenDanceALot wrote:

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@suzyQ3 wrote:

At least now I know exactly what I dislike about this cartoon. As the OP and a few others have explained, they think that this whole harassment thing is overblown, that handling such situations is a breeze, and that accusers can't be trusted.

So yeah, I hate this cartoon. It plays into general stereotypes and mimimizes, through ridicule, sexual harassment.

---

@suzyQ3

It reminded me of a person we all know who, when accused by a woman of groping her on an airplane decades ago, said to a large group of people that if he was going to grope someone it wouldn't have been her.

Oh, hahahahahahaha they all responded.

Oh, haha indeed.

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@QueenDanceALot

I saw her interview just now on the Apple. 

And I liked the way she said (paraphrasing) that she understood

if you choose not to believe her after all this time..why coming forward now?...but it happened.

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@sidsmom

Yes, I've seen her a few times.

She is much nicer to her critics than they deserve.

IMO.

[Cakers3]

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@occasionalrain wrote:

It seems we have different perspectives. There are victims but the women in this case should have stood up for themselves at the time rather than accept it in exchange for a paycheck, a promotion, a role in a film. They made their choice then, it's too late now, years later, for a do over.

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@occasionalrain    So what you are saying is that if a large paycheck is involved then one must decline a job and speak up immediately.

What say you, then, of the strawberry picker who most likely worked for paltry pay yet kept her job and remained silent?

Once we start dividing women into groups we push all of them down to a level that they do not deserve. 

Illogical thinking.

[janz]

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@occasionalrain wrote:

It seems we have different perspectives. There are victims but the women in this case should have stood up for themselves at the time rather than accept it in exchange for a paycheck, a promotion, a role in a film. They made their choice then, it's too late now, years later, for a do over.

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@occasionalrain

I agree completely.  I think coming forward after 20+ years is "jumping on the bandwagon."  If it bothered them that much they should have said something at the time.  At this point there is a chance some are claiming "me too."  I fully believe no one has the right to touch you or harass you but also you need to stand up for yourself and let them know it is not OK instead of letting them get away with it or laughing if off.    

When I was 16 my uncle pulled me onto his lap and reached completely down the front of my bathing suit.  My aunt and uncle were supposed to be watching us (sisters and brother) while my parents were out of town.  I was the one who was blamed when I told.  When I was 21 I worked at an exclusive members only club and one Saturday night during a dance with live music a customer patted my behind.  I flipped around and sternly told him not to ever touch me again and he apologized.  At that same time one of the members decided he wanted to go with me.  He was important, the richest man in the area, and used to getting what he wanted.  He decided he wanted me.  My boss gave him my phone number (I was mad).  A co-worker asked why not?  She said I wouldn't have to worry about money.  She was seeing another member, who was also rich.  Told her "it wasn't me."  I said no and stuck to it no matter how many times he tried.  Moved to CA couple years later and applied for a job at a well known 5 star resort.  The hiring manager took me on a tour of the property so I "would be aware of the amenities"  Once at the suites he shut the door and backed me against the wall.  I looked him straight in the eye and said, "If this is a job requirement I don't need the job that bad."  I didn't get the job, and I really needed it, but I wasn't going to compromise my values for a job.  

This is something that starts at a young age.  In teaching 7th grade it was impossible to want to go to work every day due to the sexual harassment from the students, the comments, touching, blowing kisses, being called 'Babe"  made it a hostile work environment and unbearable.  Unfortunately there was no support from administration.  It starts young and needs to be stopped.  It's not fun, nor is it funny in any shape or form.

[shoekitty]

I think people should focus less on what they would have done if it was them. It wasn't them in these cases.  Victims of any abuse all have different reasons.  Most usually, shame and fear.  Sometimes denial.  And of course they run across people like on these forums who deny giving them any ear, because it was not what they would have done.

10 years ago and longer no one believed you.  I took a friend to police years ago who was raped by 3 men when she was drunk.  The police officer interviewing her asked what she did,  pretty much after they learned she was drunk, dismissed the whole episode.  Then they Looked into the matter, but basically the guys said they didnt do it, and that was good enough for the police back then. She just eventually  gave up.  They didn't have DNA , security cameras and such.  I took her to hospital first, and doctors  asked IF she wanted to call police. They didn't even have to report it back then if patient said no.

as far as taking a paycheck, if you need to work, you work.  Who in the heck is going to pay your rent if you up and quit.  If you have a good job, you are going to get another job right away.?  Get real.  There are all kinds of reasons for not speaking up.  When the first, then the second victim speaks up, it gives the victims of past abuses courage to speak up.

i remember a time when women were second class citizens, who were ostracized for even working in a field that wasn't working in a shop, typing, filing, nursing or teaching.  When you got married, you quit.  Working meant your husband couldn't support you.  A divorced woman, even a widow was damaged goods.  we have come far, and some issues are out there now, and the public learns. Certainly makes you think.  But judging victims shouldn't be an issue. And for God's sake abuse should not be a partisan issue.  JMHO

[occasionalrain]

These accusations didn't happen back in the 40s and 50s. 

All I'm reading are excuses for doing nothing, going along, and how it wasn't their fault. The accusers weren't innocent children, they were adults responsible for the decisions they made. If women want respect and equal treatment they need to stop whining, crying victim and handle whatever situation they face themselves. That's what men have always done.

[Cakers3]

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@occasionalrain wrote:

These accusations didn't happen back in the 40s and 50s. 

All I'm reading are excuses for doing nothing, going along, and how it wasn't their fault. The accusers weren't innocent children, they were adults responsible for the decisions they made. If women want respect and equal treatment they need to stop whining, crying victim and handle whatever situation they face themselves. That's what men have always done.

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@occasionalrain  Many women DID try to handle the situation and were summarily rebuffed.  Some were threatened.  Some were told "oh it's just how he is ignore him".

Some were told to get over it.

You paint all the accusers with one brush stroke; there are various scenarios where women did speak up but found no support.

It is unfair to label every woman as a whiner, crying victim when those who DID try to help themselves received cold shoulders from those who should have supported them and helped them.

Crikey.