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Honored Contributor
Posts: 16,837
Registered: ‎03-10-2010

Re: HARASSMENT HAPPENS EVERYWHERE!

I agree with you completely @Tinkrbl44.  I've been shocked by some of the responses (not just here) on the Cosby situation.  Some of the women did go to the police at the time, but it was Bill Cosby and nothing was done.  He had so much power no one would believe the women if they did report it.  I'm glad it looks like the situation may be changing somewhat.  I am disappointed by some of the answers on this thread.  


The Bluebird Carries The Sky On His Back"
-Henry David Thoreau





Respected Contributor
Posts: 3,120
Registered: ‎04-17-2015

Re: HARASSMENT HAPPENS EVERYWHERE!

[ Edited ]

I discussed how it happened to me when I was young and I did something about it immediately at the cost of my job.

 

All women need to step up and report this behavior when it happens -- not 20, 30 years later, but when it happens. If women play along with this kind of macho, male-entitled warped culture, or if they choose to make the "sacrifice" to make sure they get the job, then this disgusting criminal behavior will continue and they will only have themselves to blame.

 

As far as a woman not wanting to come forward because she feels she is alone and no one will believe her...... I don't know of any situation, any work place where women don't talk to each other.  That's what I did. When you find other women suffering the same situation, you get together and DO SOMETHING about it, not remain silent.

Honored Contributor
Posts: 16,011
Registered: ‎06-09-2014

Re: HARASSMENT HAPPENS EVERYWHERE!


@Tinkrbl44 wrote:

@Laura14 wrote:

@Tinkrbl44 wrote:

@castlenv wrote:

I have a problem with the current situation and with Cosby.  I'm sure that harassment was involved but why wait so long to speak up???  Cosby was decades ago.  Isn't there a statute of limitations to these accusations?  Obviously to me, these women were willing to sell themselves for a job and now they are complaining about it.  Sorry I'm not too sympathetic.

 

 


@kaydee50

 

This is shocking.   You sound like you didn't even bother to read anything about the Cosby accusers ... or his pattern of behavior.   

 

Many women DID speak up but were told nothing could be done.  You can "accuse" a person of doing something, but without evidence and witnesses, it usually becomes a "he said, she said" situation.  The person with the most power is usually the one who is believed.

 

As for your being "sure" harassment was involved .... I have yet to read that anywhere.  Where did you see this?   It's one thing to knowingly consent to sexual activity, but these women were drugged and violated .... as in without their permission

 

Just how can you blame a woman for THAT?


@Tinkrbl44  You're skipping over where those of us on the other side are.  I will only speak for myself but prove the drugging actually happened without their consent and I'm right there with you.  

 

If you don't think girls party with boys and then regret it the next morning and make up stories to save face, scholorships, family reputations, etc., then I think you're not acknowledging an equal issue here.

 

 


@Laura14

 

I'm very clear on your point, but you seem to be assuming that every criminal act has witnesses and is totally proveable.   

 

To paraphrase an old saying ..... "If a murder happens in the forest, and no one saw it, did it really happen?"

 

QUESTION .....   If you didn't even know you were being drugged, just how do you PROVE it?   If a man assaults a woman in an elevator, with no one else in it & no cameras, just how do you suggest she "prove it"?

 

I recently read that up to 35% of all murders go unsolved.  That really surprised me, but just because the police didn't have the evidence to charge someone doesn't mean the murder didn't happen.  


@Tinkrbl44  You go to the hospital and get treatment.  Blood tests can help id any drug you've been given and I sure would want to know what was placed in my body without my consent.  And obvious assault has rape kits specifically designed for it.  There are resources available for just that reason.

 

And yes I obviously know that sometimes there are no witnesses and no marks, fluids etc to nail someone as they do on tv. 

 

I would like to think that if a woman walks into a police station or calls 911 and reports it, odds are better that she will be believed because most people are not psychotic and have better things to do with themselves than to make false police reports. 

 

You also give law enforcement an opportunity to go track down the SOB right away and investigate an actual crime scene  

 

When you don't do that, for whatever reason, legitimate and illegimate, you tie people's hands and they are less likely to go down a road with you that they know they probably can't help you with at that point. 

 

Then you are really down to a he said she said and I don't think you ruin a man's life over something that he doesn't have a chance to defend himself against since the opportunity to investigate the alleged instance has been completely taken away from him.            

Honored Contributor
Posts: 10,895
Registered: ‎03-10-2010

Re: HARASSMENT HAPPENS EVERYWHERE!

If you didn't know you were drugged than how do you know what happened?  If you knew what happened and believed you were drugged, why would you return, alone, for more of the same?

Honored Contributor
Posts: 39,560
Registered: ‎08-23-2010

Re: HARASSMENT HAPPENS EVERYWHERE!


@SaRina wrote:

I discussed how it happened to me when I was young and I did something about it immediately at the cost of my job.

 

All women need to step up and report this behavior when it happens -- not 20, 30 years later, but when it happens. If women play along with this kind of macho, male-entitled warped culture, or if they choose to make the "sacrifice" to make sure they get the job, then this disgusting criminal behavior will continue.


@SaRina

 

In a perfect world, "stepping up" will actually do some good, but it's still her word against his.  So, she gets fired.  Then what?   

 

OF COURSE it cost you the job!   That's the point .... more often than not, women aren't believed, so many think why even bother.    It's a valid point a lot of posters ignore.

 

Some women have small mouths to feed, and that guy is her boss.  Then what?  

Esteemed Contributor
Posts: 6,475
Registered: ‎03-14-2015

Re: HARASSMENT HAPPENS EVERYWHERE!


@castlenv wrote:

@Ms tyrion2 wrote:

Blame the victim mentality (especially if the victim is a woman) just never goes away. 

 

Look at some of the responses here. 

 


I'm not blaming the victim but I am questioning their motives for revealing events that happened years if not decades ago.  I guess any publicity is better than none for some of these women.

 

 


 

 

 

 

 

 

 

By "questioning their motives", you are blaming the victims.

 

 

You are (indirectly) blaming them for what happened, and for not screaming it from the roof top the very instant that it happened.

 

 

Who would have believed that "America's TV dad", not only was capable of such things, but actually did them?

 

 

The women weren't believed now, and you expect that they would have been believed almost 30 years ago, when it was much more difficult to bring forth such allegations?

 

Yes, there have been public cases where men were falsely accused of rape and other sexual crimes, and the people who accused those men should be held legally accountable.

 

But because they were falsely accused, it just makes it that much more difficult for women to come forward and to be believed, and some never come forward at all, because of other women not believing them.

 

Or, if they do come forward, years later, when they feel strong enough to do so, they get discredited by people such as yourself, who "question their motives".

 

 

It's like getting raped/sexually assaulted/harassed all over again.

 

 

Virgina Slims cigarettes slogan was "You've come a long way, baby", but have we?

 

Have we really come "a long way"?

 

 

Fromthe evidence of how women are still questioning and doubting a victim's account of rape/sexual assault/harassment, I don't think that we have.

 

I really don't.

 

Because I think for some they have the inability to imagine of people not believing them if they were to be assaulted.

 

And by nobody, I do mean nobody.

 

Not their family.

 

 

Not their friends.

 

Not the police.

 

Not even lawyers.

 

 

Nobody.

 

 

That idea is foreign to them because it never happened to them.

 

 

If, and only if it were to, then and only then would they believe the victims.

Honored Contributor
Posts: 10,620
Registered: ‎09-22-2010

Re: HARASSMENT HAPPENS EVERYWHERE!

 


@Ms tyrion2 wrote:

Blame the victim mentality (especially if the victim is a woman) just never goes away. 

 

Look at some of the responses here. 

 


May be you could take that a little farther and say especially if the victim is an attractive woman........

Esteemed Contributor
Posts: 5,889
Registered: ‎03-11-2010

Re: HARASSMENT HAPPENS EVERYWHERE!

My daughter’s first job out of graduate school involved working for what she later learned was a serial abuser. As an HR rep, she documented all the situations she and other women faced from this monster. She reported it to higher-ups and nothing was done. She changed jobs. I’ve heard that solution for too many people. My daughter did her best to avoid changing jobs but, in 1999, she got nowhere so she left.

Respected Contributor
Posts: 3,120
Registered: ‎04-17-2015

Re: HARASSMENT HAPPENS EVERYWHERE!

[ Edited ]

@Tinkrbl44 wrote:

@SaRina wrote:

I discussed how it happened to me when I was young and I did something about it immediately at the cost of my job.

 

All women need to step up and report this behavior when it happens -- not 20, 30 years later, but when it happens. If women play along with this kind of macho, male-entitled warped culture, or if they choose to make the "sacrifice" to make sure they get the job, then this disgusting criminal behavior will continue.


@SaRina

 

In a perfect world, "stepping up" will actually do some good, but it's still her word against his.  So, she gets fired.  Then what?   

 

OF COURSE it cost you the job!   That's the point .... more often than not, women aren't believed, so many think why even bother.    It's a valid point a lot of posters ignore.

 

Some women have small mouths to feed, and that guy is her boss.  Then what?  


@Tinkrbl44, I'm not going to get into a debate with you as I feel very strongly about this issue, having been a victim.  I just wanted to stop by and say I edited my post to include what women need to do...... together. Here is the edited portion of my previous post:

 

"As far as a woman not wanting to come forward because she feels she is alone and no one will believe her...... I don't know of any situation, any work place where women don't talk to each other.  That's what I did. When you find other women suffering the same situation, you get together and DO SOMETHING about it, not remain silent."

 

Trust me, I needed the job very badly too and had to go on unemployment until I found a new job.

 

One can either put up with criminal behavior.... or do something about it. Everyone has priorities.  But don't come crying to anyone if you choose to play the game.

Honored Contributor
Posts: 16,011
Registered: ‎06-09-2014

Re: HARASSMENT HAPPENS EVERYWHERE!


@Vivian Florimond wrote:

My daughter’s first job out of graduate school involved working for what she later learned was a serial abuser. As an HR rep, she documented all the situations she and other women faced from this monster. She reported it to higher-ups and nothing was done. She changed jobs. I’ve heard that solution for too many people. My daughter did her best to avoid changing jobs but, in 1999, she got nowhere so she left.


@Vivian  That's horrible and so true.  The solution to that and what I think would frankly go a long way into cleaning this issue up is to make HR a separate entity so they work for all of the employees and not just the higher ups. 

 

HR should never be an in house operation.  Conflict of interest galore.