Community Chat

[Nonametoday]

When one says "don't" or any negative verb usage, it automatically means not to.  

Perhaps, the best of all the ways to say it in a positive light and perhaps use the "perhaps, it would be  better to..."

 Also try not to say "I would ..."    

Saying. .... "Do not you think..." turn it around and it says "you do not think.." already wrong.

[WenGirl42]

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@Brinklii wrote:

OK, here is a question for you. We got into a discussion about this at a BBQ the other night. My son was going to light the charcoal and then throw the lighter fluid on.

Being a cautious mother, I said, "Do you not think that you should put the lighter fluid on first and then light the charcoal?"

My DIL (who is actually very sweet and was an English major) corrected me by saying that my question should have been, "Do not you think that you should put the lighter fluid on first...?"

My husband chimed in with, "Don't you think you should put the lighter fluid on first works for me."

My DIL said, "That's exactly why, 'Do not you think' is correct. Do not stands for don't."

About that time, I was wishing I had kept my mouth shut.

Just curious...which way would you have phrased the question? Thanks!

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Your DIL has it backwards, actually.

The correct way to ask the question (though formal) is, "Do you not?"  It evenually became acceptable more informally to use the contraction in that place (i.e., "Don't you?") even though it meant shifting around the order of the words in the sentence.  But splitting the contraction from there to say, "Do not you?" takes it even further from the original, correct form.

So the most correct way to ask is, "Do you not?"

It is acceptable to contract that to, "Don't you?"

But it is just plain wrong to ask, "Do not you?"

[ChynnaBlue]

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@Brinklii wrote:

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@PINKdogWOOD wrote:

@santorini  I'm with you on this one.  Good or bad grammar doesn't matter.  I'm going with SAFETY FIRST!!!! 

Squirk fluid first then light it - STAND BACK!  If you don't give the coals a squirk first, how do you think the colas will light???!!! 

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That's what I was thinking! I don't like lighting charcoal, which is why I said something. I've seen people in the ER in the past who squirted the fluid on after lighting the charcoal. My brother was a fireman, so my son was taught better.

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If safety is the key issue, then why make it difficult with a question? 

Just say "It's safer to add the lighter fluid first." Because if it's really a safety issue, then it's not a question and it's not up for discussion.

I work in the training and education field and we tell people what they SHOULD do, because that's the action we want. Telling people what not to do confuses them and gets in the way of doing what needs to be done.

If something critical is happening, people should go through a check list of things TO do. If they're checking off things they should not do first, they'll never get to the list of things they need to be doing. Even if it is a negative, we try to say "Avoid X" instead of "Do not do X."

[qualitygal]

@Yardlie, I don't care how it's said, the fluid goes on before it's lit. But good luck with that.

[DoneTryin]

Next time, just make reservations & let someone else do the cooking 

[Zita]

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@WenGirl42 wrote:

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@Brinklii wrote:

OK, here is a question for you. We got into a discussion about this at a BBQ the other night. My son was going to light the charcoal and then throw the lighter fluid on.

Being a cautious mother, I said, "Do you not think that you should put the lighter fluid on first and then light the charcoal?"

My DIL (who is actually very sweet and was an English major) corrected me by saying that my question should have been, "Do not you think that you should put the lighter fluid on first...?"

My husband chimed in with, "Don't you think you should put the lighter fluid on first works for me."

My DIL said, "That's exactly why, 'Do not you think' is correct. Do not stands for don't."

About that time, I was wishing I had kept my mouth shut.

Just curious...which way would you have phrased the question? Thanks!

---

Your DIL has it backwards, actually.

The correct way to ask the question (though formal) is, "Do you not?"  It evenually became acceptable more informally to use the contraction in that place (i.e., "Don't you?") even though it meant shifting around the order of the words in the sentence.  But splitting the contraction from there to say, "Do not you?" takes it even further from the original, correct form.

So the most correct way to ask is, "Do you not?"

It is acceptable to contract that to, "Don't you?"

But it is just plain wrong to ask, "Do not you?"

@WenGirl42  Your post is entirely correct. I teach English at the college level (Masters in Englih) and that's what I would say, too.

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[Zita]

I meant ENGLISH !

[Yardlie]

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@ChynnaBlue wrote:

I believe that she's technically accurate, but modern grammar allows for the way you phrased it. Language evolves. If it didn't, we would all be speaking like characters in Shakespearian plays.

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Lord what fools these mortals be!...Shakespeare (Not that my son is a fool...just foolish, occasionally.

[WenGirl42]

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@Zita wrote:

I meant ENGLISH !

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Haha, awwww! 

I had to edit to fix a comma.  It's all good!

[Yardlie]

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@ChynnaBlue wrote:

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@Brinklii wrote:

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@PINKdogWOOD wrote:

@santorini  I'm with you on this one.  Good or bad grammar doesn't matter.  I'm going with SAFETY FIRST!!!! 

Squirk fluid first then light it - STAND BACK!  If you don't give the coals a squirk first, how do you think the colas will light???!!! 

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That's what I was thinking! I don't like lighting charcoal, which is why I said something. I've seen people in the ER in the past who squirted the fluid on after lighting the charcoal. My brother was a fireman, so my son was taught better.

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If safety is the key issue, then why make it difficult with a question? 

Just say "It's safer to add the lighter fluid first." Because if it's really a safety issue, then it's not a question and it's not up for discussion.

I work in the training and education field and we tell people what they SHOULD do, because that's the action we want. Telling people what not to do confuses them and gets in the way of doing what needs to be done.

If something critical is happening, people should go through a check list of things TO do. If they're checking off things they should not do first, they'll never get to the list of things they need to be doing. Even if it is a negative, we try to say "Avoid X" instead of "Do not do X."

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Great response! Thank you.