Community Chat

[desertrat8]

All of it is just a confusing mess.  Common sense is still the best for me.  I do not trust anything I read or hear anyone anymore.......and I feel great!

[RoughDraft]

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@Lipstickdiva wrote:

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@Bhvbum wrote:

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@GrailSeeker wrote:

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@busymom22 wrote:

I never trusted WHO or even the CDC and their "experts" as there are too many political ramifications and connections.  Their findings and advice have flip-flopped so much that it just confuses the American public even more.

It really feels like there is an agenda to keep people in a state of perpetual fear.  I know some who are so scared that they hang on every word of WHO or CDC.  Use precautions, stay home if you are at risk, but we have to open things up as much as possible.

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I totally agree.

@Greeneyedlady21mentioned HIV.  That is another example of a communicable disease that was politicized.  Forty years later, still no vaccine for it, and HIV has now been down-played considerably, though it is considered the disease behind changes in civil rights and HIPAA laws.  

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About 700,000 people have died in the US from aids over 30 years

We have about 120,000 people who have died from Covid in 3.5 months.

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And there have been many advances in the treatment of HIV.  At this point because of medicines and treatment advances, someone with HIV has the same life expectency as someone without it.  

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And how many decades did these advances take and how many lives were needlessly lost because of the refusals to actually do the research or recognize what was happening?

[gardenman]

Some clarifications. First regarding the Lancet and NEJM articles regarding hydroxychloroquine being more deadly to patients than the virus. Kudos to the woman at the Guardian Australia who called around to facilities to verify that they had taken part in providing data to Surgisphere only to find out they hadn't participated. It was her reporting that exposed Surgisphere as a company inventing data to suit an agenda. Surgisphere's data was used in multiple studies on other topics also which are now being re-evaluated. This could be a much bigger issue than just Covid-19 and that woman who uncovered it deserves a big award.

As to hydroxychloroquine, it wasn't the name of a drug just pulled out of a hat. After every major disease outbreak, lookback studies are done to try and determine why some people recovered or had fewer symptoms while others died. Lookback studies that were done after SARS and MERS, two recent major coronavirus outbreaks, showed that those taking the hydroxychloroquine drug combo fared better than those not taking it. That is why it was touted as a possible treatment. It proved effective against two closely related coronaviruses, so it was a good starting point.

Anecdotal studies seemed to support those lookback results also with some using the drug combo of hydroxychloroquine, zinc, and an antibiotic reporting great success. Anecdotal reports however aren't proof. You need real studies to determine true effectiveness. The Surgisphere data and related articles were designed to derail those studies before they could reach a conclusion. And they largely succeeded with most of those running trials halting their trials due to the increased risk of death cited in those articles. 

I suspect we'll find that there are multiple companies creating false data, in essence, becoming data factories to support an agenda just like Surgisphere did. My suspicion is that those with certain political and global goals are funding Surgisphere and other data fabrication companies. In the case of Surgisphere, their falsified data may have cost dozens, hundreds, or possibly thousands of people their lives. Finding out who the investors and financial backers of Surgisphere and similar companies were should be a top priority. Those backing Surgisphere are likely backing other data factories churning out false data to suit an agenda. 

Falsified data is an affront to science. It cannot be tolerated. Surgisphere's falsified data halted research on a potential treatment for a pandemic in the midst of that pandemic. Studies that had been underway now needed to be restarted with days/weeks or more lost. Every day of research lost is potentially lives lost. One reporter in Australia did her job and exposed Surgisphere and potentially saved many lives. Kudos to her, but where the heck was everyone else? Those involved in the falsification of that data deserve to rot in Hades.

[KarenQVC]

Today Fauci says WHO isn't right and Harvard says we will lose 100,000 more before Sept.

Think we will lay low.

[suzyQ3]

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@gardenman wrote:

Some clarifications. First regarding the Lancet and NEJM articles regarding hydroxychloroquine being more deadly to patients than the virus. Kudos to the woman at the Guardian Australia who called around to facilities to verify that they had taken part in providing data to Surgisphere only to find out they hadn't participated. It was her reporting that exposed Surgisphere as a company inventing data to suit an agenda. Surgisphere's data was used in multiple studies on other topics also which are now being re-evaluated. This could be a much bigger issue than just Covid-19 and that woman who uncovered it deserves a big award.

As to hydroxychloroquine, it wasn't the name of a drug just pulled out of a hat. After every major disease outbreak, lookback studies are done to try and determine why some people recovered or had fewer symptoms while others died. Lookback studies that were done after SARS and MERS, two recent major coronavirus outbreaks, showed that those taking the hydroxychloroquine drug combo fared better than those not taking it. That is why it was touted as a possible treatment. It proved effective against two closely related coronaviruses, so it was a good starting point.

Anecdotal studies seemed to support those lookback results also with some using the drug combo of hydroxychloroquine, zinc, and an antibiotic reporting great success. Anecdotal reports however aren't proof. You need real studies to determine true effectiveness. The Surgisphere data and related articles were designed to derail those studies before they could reach a conclusion. And they largely succeeded with most of those running trials halting their trials due to the increased risk of death cited in those articles. 

I suspect we'll find that there are multiple companies creating false data, in essence, becoming data factories to support an agenda just like Surgisphere did. My suspicion is that those with certain political and global goals are funding Surgisphere and other data fabrication companies. In the case of Surgisphere, their falsified data may have cost dozens, hundreds, or possibly thousands of people their lives. Finding out who the investors and financial backers of Surgisphere and similar companies were should be a top priority. Those backing Surgisphere are likely backing other data factories churning out false data to suit an agenda. 

Falsified data is an affront to science. It cannot be tolerated. Surgisphere's falsified data halted research on a potential treatment for a pandemic in the midst of that pandemic. Studies that had been underway now needed to be restarted with days/weeks or more lost. Every day of research lost is potentially lives lost. One reporter in Australia did her job and exposed Surgisphere and potentially saved many lives. Kudos to her, but where the heck was everyone else? Those involved in the falsification of that data deserve to rot in Hades.

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Do you have some proof to back up your statements that a particular agenda was involved rather than simply poor adherence to protocols?

[GenXmuse]

From Medscape:

https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/931774 https://www.statnews.com/2020/06/07/researcher-involved-...

[Lipstickdiva]

I'm not sure where the information came from about the reporter in Australia.

However, because of this, WHO put a pause on enrollment of part of a clinical trial meant to test this drug in the treatment of Covid-19.

I googled guardian reporter surgisphere and an article about all of this also popped up that I found very interesting.  

[Stray]

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@Lipstickdiva wrote:

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@Stray wrote:
That has not been the experience in N Jersey. We lead in Covid-19 testing nationally. Our statistics do not support the WHO “theory”. My own friends were asymptomatic or very mild that passed in a day. I’ve lost 4 friends who did not exhibit symptoms until they were in the final stages. There is a pre clinical or prodromal period in most communicable diseases where they are contagious. How would you determine those factors? They in fact are silent carriers. The answer social distancing and masks in the presence of an out of control outbreak with no therapy, no cure, no vaccine and a high death toll. A new virus highly virulent and highly contagious that targets high risk citizens. They had it right. It doesn’t matter about the “rarity”. They are playing games with words. Children were supposed to be almost immune from the disease but here in NJ, we are seeing PIMS. Most parents would rush their kids to a pediatrician if sick but they don’t display severe symptoms at first or the same as adults but they do spread the disease. We’ve had two young teachers die in our town under 30 from seemingly well children. I find the WHO statement dangerous and no agency tracks disease globally better than the CDC. Countries that contained the virus early and quicker were even more austere with measures. Didn’t the WHO say masks weren’t necessary but retracted that statement a couple of weeks ago and told us to wear masks? It’s so simple to do and I don’t really see it to be an imposition to possibly save my life and that of others

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@Stray, I'm not sure about WHO but the CDC initially said masks shouldn't be worn and then came out and said they were necessary to protect others so they should be worn. 

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@Lipstickdiva - both organizations said masks weren't necessary only for the ill but being in medicine for 50 years and having lived through, polio, rubella, Aids, TB, Influenza outbreaks, swine and H1N1, Anthrax, SARS & cared for patients & employees with exposure to all, I never got sick nor brought anything home to my family/friends.....why?  I wore masks, doubled at times, washed my hands until they were raw and practiced good hygiene.  Some things just don't change and it is intuitive to me and I only turn to agencies re the outbreak info.