Community Chat

[Porcelain]

Many of the people who are complaining about gas prices the loudest are fans of Elon Musk, so I assume they would not object to buying his cars. He is a huge proponent of EVs and fighting climate change.

On the other hand, using gasoline is a valid personal preference. And if you want to drill for petrol on your own land go right ahead. Feel free to create your own gas and oil and be self sufficient.

But if you don't have your own personal oil wells and refineries, then you are like the rest of us and beholden to foreign nations and multinational oil companies for your gas.

And they can charge you however much they want to. They owe you nothing, and they know it. They are going to price gouge everyone as much as they can get away with--until they're successfully sued and forced to stop. Which could take a very long time. And there's nothing you can do to stop it.

[RedTop]

Regular is still $3.99 here on the southern end of WV.   

[Spurt]

---

@gardenman wrote:

---

@Porcelain wrote:

Get a Tesla.

---

 Yeah. Not such a great idea. A compact sedan like a Honda Civic will cost you $23,000-$29,000 while a compact Tesla (Model 3) will cost you $48,000-$62,000. That's a $19,000-$39,000 difference in price. (Most expensive Civic to least expensive Tesla and vice versa.) At $5 a gallon for gas, the $19,000 difference in cost (and that's the least possible difference) is 3,800 gallons of gas. A Civic gets about 30+ MPG so you're looking at driving at least 114,000 miles before you break even on the cost of the two cars. And that's not including the cost of charging the Tesla which can cost about $9.62 per charge, and you get 267 miles per charge. The math just doesn't work.

And the math gets worse when you move up to bigger versions. A mid-size sedan like the Kia Telluride can cost about $43,000 while the comparable Tesla (Model X) costs $120,000+. That's a $77,000+ difference. That's a lot of gas.

Teslas are great cars, very techie and neat, but they aren't practical. Not for "normal" people. If you're a virtue-signaling "I'm saving the planet" type, they're great for you. For normal people in the real world, they're not so practical. The math just doesn't work.

---

@gardenman 

And look at the impact on electricity and the electric power grid....and is this really "saving the planet" 🙄

Fossil fuels are the largest sources of energy for electricity generation. 

[gardenman]

---

@Spurt wrote:

---

@gardenman wrote:

---

@Porcelain wrote:

Get a Tesla.

---

 Yeah. Not such a great idea. A compact sedan like a Honda Civic will cost you $23,000-$29,000 while a compact Tesla (Model 3) will cost you $48,000-$62,000. That's a $19,000-$39,000 difference in price. (Most expensive Civic to least expensive Tesla and vice versa.) At $5 a gallon for gas, the $19,000 difference in cost (and that's the least possible difference) is 3,800 gallons of gas. A Civic gets about 30+ MPG so you're looking at driving at least 114,000 miles before you break even on the cost of the two cars. And that's not including the cost of charging the Tesla which can cost about $9.62 per charge, and you get 267 miles per charge. The math just doesn't work.

And the math gets worse when you move up to bigger versions. A mid-size sedan like the Kia Telluride can cost about $43,000 while the comparable Tesla (Model X) costs $120,000+. That's a $77,000+ difference. That's a lot of gas.

Teslas are great cars, very techie and neat, but they aren't practical. Not for "normal" people. If you're a virtue-signaling "I'm saving the planet" type, they're great for you. For normal people in the real world, they're not so practical. The math just doesn't work.

---

@gardenman 

And look at the impact on electricity and the electric power grid....and is this really "saving the planet" 🙄

Fossil fuels are the largest sources of energy for electricity generation. 

---

Yeah, it's just nonsense. If you have an accountant or financial planner who advises you to buy an electric car, you need a new accountant or financial planner. The economics of it just don't work. Not now and probably not for the foreseeable future.

Parts of the country now have rolling blackouts due to an electricity shortage. Adding more demand will only make that worse. 

Our electrical grid is not especially robust now. Power providers are required to have spinning reserve, Spinning reserve is power that's readily available to fill spikes in demand to prevent blackouts and brownouts. That spinning reserve is largely gone these days as the plants that would normally provide it are running flat out to keep up with current demand. There is often nothing left in reserve.

[Spurt]

---

@gardenman wrote:

---

---

@gardenman 

And look at the impact on electricity and the electric power grid....and is this really "saving the planet" 🙄

Fossil fuels are the largest sources of energy for electricity generation. 

---

Yeah, it's just nonsense. If you have an accountant or financial planner who advises you to buy an electric car, you need a new accountant or financial planner. The economics of it just don't work. Not now and probably not for the foreseeable future.

Parts of the country now have rolling blackouts due to an electricity shortage. Adding more demand will only make that worse. 

Our electrical grid is not especially robust now. Power providers are required to have spinning reserve, Spinning reserve is power that's readily available to fill spikes in demand to prevent blackouts and brownouts. That spinning reserve is largely gone these days as the plants that would normally provide it are running flat out to keep up with current demand. There is often nothing left in reserve.

---

@gardenman 

Here in Texas, and in my city we know all about electric energy issues....the Texas Artic front of 2021 exposed all the weaknesses and inadequacies and lack of reserve for the Texas Grid--the green energy sources failed as did fossil fuels and gas....we were left without electricity and water for over a week....

And our city's local CEO in charge of electricity/energy made it even worse---we didnt even get rolling blackouts due to her stupidity like Fort Worth and Dallas did!!!  Our entire area was BLACKED OUT!!! ...There were people that paid for their STUPIDITY they either resigned and/or were fired by how does that help us cover past costs.

Part of the problem lied with the Distribution Company and our local City Public Service Energy Co...And then the Market Price was increased and that came into play ....so our local electric company has implemented a rate increase to cover the electric market costs and they spread it out for the next 25 yrs!!!! to make if affordable for everyone.   PLUS they also did a general rate increase as well on top of it..and equipment needs to be upgraded and guess who will pay for that.....😩😡

But Texas wasnt the only one experiencing blackouts---Oklahoma, Missouri, and Arkansas on the National Grid were supposed to send us electricity from their reserves, but they experienced bad weather and they started having their own rolling brownouts so they unable to help....

And for people that said Texas was stupid for having their own Grid....well read the fine print, even States on the National Grid are referred back to the Statewide facilities for handling most problems....so folks demand inspections of our local enegry companies...... And the National Grid is in bad shape, vunerable to hackers etc etc.....

We just hope they fixed our cities electric problems enough to get us through our long hot summer....

[qvcaddition]

My Costco was 5.44 reg. From 5.69.   I live in CAL.  Much higher here.

[Duckncover]

Paid $3.69 for regular today at Costco...up from $3.39 10 days ago. The Gas Buddy app show several places here at 3.99 and higher. It will only go higher as we get closer to summer.

[Porcelain]

---

@gardenman wrote:

---

@Spurt wrote:

---

@gardenman wrote:

---

@Porcelain wrote:

Get a Tesla.

---

 Yeah. Not such a great idea. A compact sedan like a Honda Civic will cost you $23,000-$29,000 while a compact Tesla (Model 3) will cost you $48,000-$62,000. That's a $19,000-$39,000 difference in price. (Most expensive Civic to least expensive Tesla and vice versa.) At $5 a gallon for gas, the $19,000 difference in cost (and that's the least possible difference) is 3,800 gallons of gas. A Civic gets about 30+ MPG so you're looking at driving at least 114,000 miles before you break even on the cost of the two cars. And that's not including the cost of charging the Tesla which can cost about $9.62 per charge, and you get 267 miles per charge. The math just doesn't work.

And the math gets worse when you move up to bigger versions. A mid-size sedan like the Kia Telluride can cost about $43,000 while the comparable Tesla (Model X) costs $120,000+. That's a $77,000+ difference. That's a lot of gas.

Teslas are great cars, very techie and neat, but they aren't practical. Not for "normal" people. If you're a virtue-signaling "I'm saving the planet" type, they're great for you. For normal people in the real world, they're not so practical. The math just doesn't work.

---

@gardenman 

And look at the impact on electricity and the electric power grid....and is this really "saving the planet" 🙄

Fossil fuels are the largest sources of energy for electricity generation. 

---

Yeah, it's just nonsense. If you have an accountant or financial planner who advises you to buy an electric car, you need a new accountant or financial planner. The economics of it just don't work. Not now and probably not for the foreseeable future.

Parts of the country now have rolling blackouts due to an electricity shortage. Adding more demand will only make that worse. 

Our electrical grid is not especially robust now. Power providers are required to have spinning reserve, Spinning reserve is power that's readily available to fill spikes in demand to prevent blackouts and brownouts. That spinning reserve is largely gone these days as the plants that would normally provide it are running flat out to keep up with current demand. There is often nothing left in reserve.

---

But you don't want to use any alternative forms of energy generation like solar or wind or hydrogen, so I guess we're stuck then. With your plan, we gotta only use the petro fuel that multinational corporations choose to sell us (or sell back to us), at the price they choose to sell it, and if that gets rare or expensive, that's just how it goes.

Catch-22. No way out. We have to use only that fuel for our electrical grid and our cars. And if that means some Americans can't afford to heat our homes or drive our cars, that's a sacrifice we need to make for the sake of continuing on the way we have done for a hundred years.

Seems a bit like failing the test of survival of the fittest -- to be unwilling or unable to adapt to change.

[Isobel Archer]

---

@Porcelain wrote:

---

@gardenman wrote:

---

@Spurt wrote:

---

@gardenman wrote:

---

@Porcelain wrote:

Get a Tesla.

---

 Yeah. Not such a great idea. A compact sedan like a Honda Civic will cost you $23,000-$29,000 while a compact Tesla (Model 3) will cost you $48,000-$62,000. That's a $19,000-$39,000 difference in price. (Most expensive Civic to least expensive Tesla and vice versa.) At $5 a gallon for gas, the $19,000 difference in cost (and that's the least possible difference) is 3,800 gallons of gas. A Civic gets about 30+ MPG so you're looking at driving at least 114,000 miles before you break even on the cost of the two cars. And that's not including the cost of charging the Tesla which can cost about $9.62 per charge, and you get 267 miles per charge. The math just doesn't work.

And the math gets worse when you move up to bigger versions. A mid-size sedan like the Kia Telluride can cost about $43,000 while the comparable Tesla (Model X) costs $120,000+. That's a $77,000+ difference. That's a lot of gas.

Teslas are great cars, very techie and neat, but they aren't practical. Not for "normal" people. If you're a virtue-signaling "I'm saving the planet" type, they're great for you. For normal people in the real world, they're not so practical. The math just doesn't work.

---

@gardenman 

And look at the impact on electricity and the electric power grid....and is this really "saving the planet" 🙄

Fossil fuels are the largest sources of energy for electricity generation. 

---

Yeah, it's just nonsense. If you have an accountant or financial planner who advises you to buy an electric car, you need a new accountant or financial planner. The economics of it just don't work. Not now and probably not for the foreseeable future.

Parts of the country now have rolling blackouts due to an electricity shortage. Adding more demand will only make that worse. 

Our electrical grid is not especially robust now. Power providers are required to have spinning reserve, Spinning reserve is power that's readily available to fill spikes in demand to prevent blackouts and brownouts. That spinning reserve is largely gone these days as the plants that would normally provide it are running flat out to keep up with current demand. There is often nothing left in reserve.

---

But you don't want to use any alternative forms of energy generation like solar or wind or hydrogen, so I guess we're stuck then. With your plan, we gotta only use the petro fuel that multinational corporations choose to sell us (or sell back to us), at the price they choose to sell it, and if that gets rare or expensive, that's just how it goes.

Catch-22. No way out. We have to use only that fuel for our electrical grid and our cars. And if that means some Americans can't afford to heat our homes or drive our cars, that's a sacrifice we need to make for the sake of continuing on the way we have done for a hundred years.

Seems a bit like failing the test of survival of the fittest -- to be unwilling or unable to adapt to change.

---

No we don't have to rely on others, we could use our own - as we were doing.

And we could use nuclear energy as well.