Community Chat

[Plaid Pants2]

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@QueenDanceALot wrote:

@Plaid Pants2

A "pat on the back" turned into his hand moving up her blouse "about 6 inches" according to him.

That's quite a "pat".

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He still immediately apologised when he saw the that she recoiled.

That can't and shouldn't be dismissed.

[VanSleepy]

That story doesn't even make sense.  How is a blouse open in the back?  And if you're going to pat someone on the back, your hand "starts in" at the shoulder area, no? Not waistline or lower to get under someone's blouse.  I'm not saying the whole thing could not have been some accident, but that description doesn't sound plausible.

[TenderMercies]

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@Sooner wrote:

I find it unacceptable to fire people on "allegations."  I didn't think we were supposed to work that way.

I am concerned when people can accuse others of something that has been going on with full knowledge of the whole office for many years, and the person has not been formally reprimanded or counseled and they suddenly are fired.

Whatever happened or whatever you think or feel about this issue, THAT sort of thing puts every working person in jeopardy of being falsly accused of something and fired without proper HR steps being taken.

THAT'S a lot to worry about too isn't it?  Seems to me that proper counseling and warning steps are being left out and there is no process--just out the door because someone pointed a finger at you.

That goes deeper into many other workplace issues doesn't it?  It's likethe McCarthy hearings all over again.

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If the accused people apologize or verify the claims of the accusers, then they are more than allegations.  In this instance, Keillor said he touched a woman inappropriately, but apologized.  Both Kevin Spacey and Al Franken apologized.  George Takei said he didn't recall the incident with his accuser, but a recording of him surfaced talking about how he likes to victimize men in the way in which his victim claimed was his experience.  Same with Bill Cosby.  He admitted in a deposition that he used "Spanish Fly" to drug and seduce women.  Harvey Weinstein checked himself into a rehab program after multiple victims came forward with similar stories.  I am sure that there are many sick individuals out there who would falsely make up claims that they were abused for whatever reason, but in the many high profile cases that I've seen recently, there are either multiple victims with witnesses who have verified their claims for years, or admissions of guilt on behalf of the people who were accused.  

[Moonchilde]

There are sincere apologies and there are “got caught at it” apologies, and people know the difference,

And in this case, he says that he apologized, but at the time did he, and was it just a “got caught” apology? 

Reading his interpretation of what supposedly happened, it’s a pretty “creative” way IMO to explain sticking your hand up someone’s blouse. I’m sorry, whatever spin you try to put on it, that’s not an accident, period.

One does wonder, however, why this accusation was brought up now. It was harrassment certainly, and nasty, but not on a par with groping, squeezing, attempted physical assault. It was (according to MPR) a single occurrence as far as they’re aware from a man who has already retired.

MPR severed ties quietly. Why did he bring it to public attention? I think HE WANTED the public attention. A**.

[QueenDanceALot]

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@Plaid Pants2 wrote:

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@QueenDanceALot wrote:

@Plaid Pants2

A "pat on the back" turned into his hand moving up her blouse "about 6 inches" according to him.

That's quite a "pat".

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He still immediately apologised when he saw the that she recoiled.

That can't and shouldn't be dismissed.

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@Plaid Pants2

That's his account of it.

I would guess he's not admitting to less of a "pat" than what actually occurred.

[Mom2Dogs]

Wow, that surprises me.  My mom loved listening to his radio show.

[Noel7]

He said her blouse was open, but he went up her back.

I assume that means it was a loose blouse and the back wasn't fitted.  The Hill reported he apologized when she recoiled but told him not to worry.  It seemed to be later when she complained about it.  I have no idea how much later.

[Moonchilde]

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@Noel7 wrote:

He said her blouse was open, but he went up her back.

I assume that means it was a loose blouse and the back wasn't fitted.  The Hill reported he apologized when she recoiled but told him not to worry.  It seemed to be later when she complained about it.  I have no idea how much later.

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Still trying to reconcile how “her blouse was open” is relevant to his excuse/“explanation.” To me, when an open blouse is mentioned, I think of a blouse unbuttoned down the front, which has nothing to do with putting hands anywhere on a back. If he meant to imply her blouse wasn’t tucked in, then why would he stick his hand beneath it, from below? That’s not how you “pat someone on the back.” And typically in office situations, anyone in their right mind would stick to a shoulder, not attempt a back rub, if they were inclined to offer comfort in that way.

Yes, some touching is absolutely unconscious and not at all meant to be sexual. This does not sound like that. And I can’t imagine that if someone had put their hand up my back, that I would say that’s okay, no biggie, I’m okay with it, know you didn’t mean to, etc. There would be no way I’d buy that it was a thoughtless accident, as described.

[Sooner]

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@QueenDanceALot wrote:

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@Sooner wrote:

I find it unacceptable to fire people on "allegations."  I didn't think we were supposed to work that way.

I am concerned when people can accuse others of something that has been going on with full knowledge of the whole office for many years, and the person has not been formally reprimanded or counseled and they suddenly are fired.

Whatever happened or whatever you think or feel about this issue, THAT sort of thing puts every working person in jeopardy of being falsly accused of something and fired without proper HR steps being taken.

THAT'S a lot to worry about too isn't it?  Seems to me that proper counseling and warning steps are being left out and there is no process--just out the door because someone pointed a finger at you.

That goes deeper into many other workplace issues doesn't it?  It's likethe McCarthy hearings all over again.

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@Sooner

Keillor says his hand went up her open blouse "about 6 inches".

That's more than an allegation.  It's an admission.

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@QueenDanceALot  My observations are on a general scale, not specific to this.  However, when people can go back many years and dredge up something they did not report, and people get fired, that is dangerous territory.

And I am old enough to have heard about and studied in school the McCarthy era and this concerns me that many good people now will be blacklisted because of this, just as people were for the red scare many years ago.  

To me, this is turning into a witch hunt, and the potential for ruining lives over stuff that was overlooked in the past (RIGHTLY OR WRONGLY) is going to ruin a lot of lives and families.  You can't leave out the wives and children here either. 

I believe strongly in our justice system, in laws, rules (which spell out behaviors), process, and punishment.  And I also believe strongly in personal responsibility.  People were afraid to stick out their necks, so there is a lesson in that as well.  

As with everything, sometimes we need to make adjustments in our behaviors and laws and practices an go forward with everyone on the same page.  What do we look at?  Someone who told a lewd joke in the past getting fired?  Losing retirement?  Shaming the family?

My point is I believe this is and will turn into hysteria that gets out of reason.  I'm afraid of that.  I can't help it.  How do you fit together the things we see on movies and on tv and this?  I don't get it.  We've been moving more and more toward relaxed attitudes about this stuff, now we are firing people all of a sudden.  Body parts are on display everywhere, kids hook up in jr. high, and then suddenly we're firing people for telling a dirty joke.  

To me the disconnect here is HUGE.  That's what I can't wrap my mind around.  

[TenderMercies]

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@Sooner wrote:

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@QueenDanceALot wrote:

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@Sooner wrote:

I find it unacceptable to fire people on "allegations."  I didn't think we were supposed to work that way.

I am concerned when people can accuse others of something that has been going on with full knowledge of the whole office for many years, and the person has not been formally reprimanded or counseled and they suddenly are fired.

Whatever happened or whatever you think or feel about this issue, THAT sort of thing puts every working person in jeopardy of being falsly accused of something and fired without proper HR steps being taken.

THAT'S a lot to worry about too isn't it?  Seems to me that proper counseling and warning steps are being left out and there is no process--just out the door because someone pointed a finger at you.

That goes deeper into many other workplace issues doesn't it?  It's likethe McCarthy hearings all over again.

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@Sooner

Keillor says his hand went up her open blouse "about 6 inches".

That's more than an allegation.  It's an admission.

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@QueenDanceALot  My observations are on a general scale, not specific to this.  However, when people can go back many years and dredge up something they did not report, and people get fired, that is dangerous territory.

And I am old enough to have heard about and studied in school the McCarthy era and this concerns me that many good people now will be blacklisted because of this, just as people were for the red scare many years ago.  

To me, this is turning into a witch hunt, and the potential for ruining lives over stuff that was overlooked in the past (RIGHTLY OR WRONGLY) is going to ruin a lot of lives and families.  You can't leave out the wives and children here either. 

I believe strongly in our justice system, in laws, rules (which spell out behaviors), process, and punishment.  And I also believe strongly in personal responsibility.  People were afraid to stick out their necks, so there is a lesson in that as well.  

As with everything, sometimes we need to make adjustments in our behaviors and laws and practices an go forward with everyone on the same page.  What do we look at?  Someone who told a lewd joke in the past getting fired?  Losing retirement?  Shaming the family?

My point is I believe this is and will turn into hysteria that gets out of reason.  I'm afraid of that.  I can't help it.  How do you fit together the things we see on movies and on tv and this?  I don't get it.  We've been moving more and more toward relaxed attitudes about this stuff, now we are firing people all of a sudden.  Body parts are on display everywhere, kids hook up in jr. high, and then suddenly we're firing people for telling a dirty joke.  

To me the disconnect here is HUGE.  That's what I can't wrap my mind around.  

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@Sooner The passage of time neither excuses nor redeems any illegal behavior.  To compare the experiences of these victims to McCarthyism is inaccurate.  There is both evidence and admission of guilt in most of these cases, so that is not a witch hunt.