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Re: First US vaccines to be delivered to the US on December 15

@pitdakotawhat happens if a frontline doctor or nurse is not comfortable with any of the vaccines and refuses it.  Will their job be on the line?  I'm feeling like it's not unreasonable to refuse it at this point...

 

Have you heard about this "trojan horse" topic of conversation by some doctors who are saying that the vaccine once inside the body could have an adverse affect if the person is later exposed to a different corona virus attaching itself to what has been placed inside the body from the vaccine and causing ill health and possibly death?   

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Re: First US vaccines to be delivered to the US on December 15

@pitdakota  yet again another question to you or other nurses or doctors in the house.  Are we (meaning Americans) supposed to feel sad, angry, upset, or any other emotion I can't think of right now over the fact that the U.K. got the Psfizer vaccine approved and delivered before we did?  Dr F states the FDA is the gold standard but other people are saying the opposite. 

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Re: First US vaccines to be delivered to the US on December 15

@noodleann, they don't truly know the longevity of a immunity secondary to a vaccine until it is in widespread circulation and periods of time have elapsed since vaccination programs have taken place.  That has not ever been a part of vaccine approval, that is not insanity.

 

For example, they learned well after the MMR vaccine had been deployed that it in fact did not provide years and years of protection since they had an outbreak of measles that occurred in older children previously vaccinated that came into contact with measles from someone that had not been vaccinated.

 

Thus, they added a booster MMR prior to 5th grade students for a number of years and required health care workers to either have titers drawn to provie immunity or take the MMR vaccine.  After the gap individuals had been covered they then revised the immunization schedule to add another MMR vaccine to provide longer coverage for children.  The goal is to provide herd immunity in children which then protects older adults.

 

However, that doesn't mean the MMR vaccine is not efficient.  It is and has gone quite a long way in decreasing incidence of measles, mump, and rubella in the wider population.  

 

How long a vaccine is effective is not part of any vaccine approval process.  The goal is to produce a vaccine that illicits an immune response that does provides protection from serious disease of the identified pathogen, provides protection that is safe.

 

A Safe and effective vaccine doesn't necessarily require a vaccine that lasts 2 years, 3 years, etc.  It depends. 

 

A very common misconception about childhood vaccination programs is that those vaccines produce life long immunity.  Many of them don't.  The goal is to produce herd immunity in that target group since it spreads so readily in that population and thereby protects older individuals that might be susceptible as well.

 

I think people are confusing efficacy with long term coverage.  They are not the same thing. Efficacy relates to how effective the vaccine is at preventing serious disease of that pathogen.  In that regard the stats are already out for Moderna and Pfizer and demonstrated a high level of efficacy at prevening serious disease from SARS-CoV-2.  That is the goal of efficacy.  

 

Don't people remember the smallpox scare post 9-11?  There were some that had fears that groups could get their hands on the small pox virus to release it in the general population.  If that ever did happen, no one really knows if those vaccinated for small pox would still have appropriate levels of neutralizing antibodies from childhood vaccination to actively fight the disease if they were exposed.  But that doesn't mean the vaccine wasn't effective.  It most certainly was since smallpox is the only vaccine preventable disease to be eradicated from mankind. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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Re: First US vaccines to be delivered to the US on December 15


@shoesnbags wrote:

@pitdakota 

Thank you for continuing to be a voice of knowledge and reason on these COVID threads.  Your posts are much appreciated.💕


______________________________________________________-

 

@shoesnbags, thank you for your kind words.  Just second hand nature being a nurse since education and patient teaching are such  critical roles of nursing.  Add to that, this is my wheelhouse and I can only try to explain what it is I know, what I have taught to nursing and medical students, and areas in which I have experience.  All I can do is try. 


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Re: First US vaccines to be delivered to the US on December 15

@pitdakota, I enjoy reading your posts. Thank you for them and for explaining things to us/me.   It helps Smiley Happy

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Re: First US vaccines to be delivered to the US on December 15

@pitdakota 

 

You bring up a good point re: childhood vaccines. They often don't last forever and people are unaware. I discovered before nursing school that I no longer had mumps antibodies so I redid my MMR. It's quite common, in fact.

 

I don't believe that the US need to be in a race with another country. Great Britain could also have a faster rollout just because of smaller geography and population. The US is massive and it's not clear on how we will get to inner cities and poor rural areas. Just as the virus disproportionately affects the poor and minorites - infections, economics - these same groups may be more difficult to locate, reach and vaccinate.

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Re: First US vaccines to be delivered to the US on December 15

@bikerbabeit's being reported that concierge doctors will have access to the vaccine and be able to administer them to the rich. The report also states that when one is paying for the services of a concierge doctor this request will not seem out of the ordinary.  So I really think that the vaccine will not reach those that should be getting it first.  I would not only like to see the doctors and nurses get the vaccine but also police and fire and emt's.

 

 

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Re: First US vaccines to be delivered to the US on December 15

@agb80. all theoretical questions yet to be determined.  Health care agencies will make the decision as to whether they require the vaccine for their employees, not me.  I would say it isn't unreasonable since they require their employees to take an influenza vaccine or they offer other alternatives for those that don't want the vaccine.

 

In terms, of your other questions I would encourage listening to the experts.  Those with years of experience in infectious disease and public health.   

 

No, I haven't heard the part about the Trojan horse theory in terms of reactions to the covid-19 vaccine.  But on the surface, I have to shake my head.  How would one explain multiple strains of influenza?  There are countless strains of influenza that come under the category of type A, B, and C.  Yet, every year we inoculated hundreds of millions of people around the world for different strains of influenza.  So if a Trojan horse effect existed, it would certainly play out in influenza.  And that is just one example. 

 

I have however, heard of the Trojan horse theory that researchers in the cancer area are working on in order to look at vaccine technology such as the mRNA vaccine to program the immune response of the body to fight a particular type of cancer. 

 

 

 

 


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Re: First US vaccines to be delivered to the US on December 15

[ Edited ]

New York City has already announced that its distribution plan will prioritize those communities and neighborhoods hit the hardest by the virus, when the vaccine is available to the general population.  Each state and municipality should be making such forecasts.

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Re: First US vaccines to be delivered to the US on December 15


@bikerbabe wrote:

@pitdakota 

 

You bring up a good point re: childhood vaccines. They often don't last forever and people are unaware. I discovered before nursing school that I no longer had mumps antibodies so I redid my MMR. It's quite common, in fact.

 

I don't believe that the US need to be in a race with another country. Great Britain could also have a faster rollout just because of smaller geography and population. The US is massive and it's not clear on how we will get to inner cities and poor rural areas. Just as the virus disproportionately affects the poor and minorites - infections, economics - these same groups may be more difficult to locate, reach and vaccinate.


__________________________________________________________

 

Hi @bikerbabe!  Absolutely, a very common misunderstanding with childhood vaccination programs.  People just think that they provide life long immunity because it actually does work.  Vaccinate the children, decrease the incidence of disease in children, and even though adults no longer have immunity to "said" disease since they aren't exposed to children with the disease, adults don't get it either.  Since adults aren't getting the disease, they think they are still covered by vaccination, not understanding this is a critical part of a successful childhood vaccination program. 

 

So unless adults are put in situations such as having to have titers drawn to determine immunity and if a vaccination is required for nursing school, medical school, etc., they aren't aware they no longer have enough antibodies to be considered immune.

 

I think that also plays a role in people misunderstanding efficacy of a vaccine and longevity of a vaccine.  

 

 

 

 


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